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AbyssKnight wrote:

There are many reasons to worship an evil deity without being evil.

Examples:

Umberlee has long been the B!tch Queen who sends ships to the crushing depths and claims the lives and even souls of the sailors aboard. Thus, since man first lashed logs together and set them afloat on the waves, practically every sailor has sought to placate her with offerings and prayers.

Yeah, quote right out fo the book. however, that was an example of how laymen will offer prayers to different gods for different reasons because they aren't dedicated to one patron god. So it's a bad example. That same sailor probably offers prayers to many other gods over the course of a day.

You are a drow who has spent literally more than a human lifetime growing up in a society dominated by Lolth's clergy. Even if your personal values do not follow the outright evil mores of your fellows, indoctrination and socialization or even just habit could easily result in you directing your prayers to the Spider Queen.

Once again, the question arises... are you doing so out of rote habit in regards to a partcular reason to pray? (such as the previous example of prayign to Umberlee in hopes that she won't capsize your ship) Or are you doing so because she is your patron deity and yu faollow her tenants. There's a big difference.

To turn your question around for a moment, why do so many elves (and eladrin) worship Corellon? Why do so many dwarves worship Moradin?

They are their races' progenitors. Evil members of those races don't generally worship them.

A large part of it is the connection of that specific deity to their race's history and the enshirement of his worship in their culture. Or more simply, because they were raised to worship them.

Sure, Drizzt was raised to worship Lolth. Do you think he still does?

Most people in the real world hold religious beliefs, and most of thost people had those beliefs instilled in them and reinforced constantly during their youth.

So... if we're using real world examples... dedicated Satanic Worship is okay? Having Satan as your god can somehow be construed as a good thing? i bet there's a good reason to be promoting corruption and strife in the world. :P

Why would it be different for the drow?

Call me crazy, but I see a world of difference between the casual offering of a prayer to please: help me/avoid illness/have good luck/don't kill me/don't drown me/etc. to whatever god and dedicated worship to a single god. To me, if you list a patron deity on yor character sheet, that God is your patron deity. That means you are a dedicated worshiper of that god and a believer and follower of that god's tenants who works to promote that god's agenda, not just a casual prayer maker.

If I make a fighter that lists Tempus as his patron deity, he would believe in and follow Tempus' tenants above all others. That doesn't mean he may not say a prayer to Aumanator in the morning when the sun rises, or a prayer to Kelemvor over his fallen comrade. Your patron deity doesn't cover every portfolio possibility. However, when it comes down to it, that fighter is going to try to live his life according to the teachings of Tempus.

Similarly, if you are a Drow PC and you list Lolth as your patron deity, you are following her tenants and believe in her doctrine as your primary faith. (and most likely only faith since she doesn't like the Drow worshipping anyone else) if you truly aren't evil, then why would you be a dedicated worshipper of a deity that promotes genocide? By her own description she "revels in blood, hungers for sacrifice... ."

Why not allow PCs to worship Asmodeus or Orcus? i bet we can find some good reasons to worship them in a sunshine, flowers and fluffy bunnies sort of way.

Is it possible for someone to have a good reason to worship Lolth as a non-evil character? Possibly, but I have yet to see one. It smacks of the old LG paradig where the CN alignment was just an excuse to play an evil-lite character. i have yet to see an RP reason to be an unaligned PC worship Lolth/Bane/Cyric/Whoever that elevates itself above that.

Your own example of a Drow warlock... if you went the Infernal route, it only means you made a "deal with the devil" to get your power. You don't worship them (and by the rules of LFR you can't). You can even be Lawful Good and be an infernal pact warlock. The road to hellis paved with good intentions.

If soemone wants to worship an evil deity that bad, let them find a DM to run them though an evil based home campaign. The LFR campaign is meant to be heroic and worshipping and promoting the agenda of evil gods is not part of it.

terrydu wrote:

Actually, I'd really like to see official things posted and disseminated in a clear fashion, and in an official manner. I'm not trying to be argumentative here -- I just think that doing anything else is bad management.

The fact that this document is *still* not available on WotC's site anywhere makes it pretty much worthless for new players. Furthermore, since it's not listed anywhere official for our campaign it really makes me think that it was rushed and an interim solution. That's not something I want to have a lot of faith in, to be honest.

And let's face it, I can't trust a document that gets uploaded to a Yahoo group. I still don't know where to go to get the authoritative and (potentially) unmodified doc.

For now, I think I'll just use that doc as guidance, the same I do with the FAQ's and DDI Rules Compendium's answers to 4e rules questions.

It doesn't matter that I think speed limit laws are stupid and arbitrary. I can't tell the officer that pulls me over that I think a speed limit sign is simply a guidance. I'm still going to get ticketed.

The document in question was issued at the last minute before Gencon because Chris T. otherwise didn't have the time to get it out in a better manner (he was already in Indy setting up, then turned around and had to head out to PAX). Players were clamoring for it though so he released it as is.

So it ultimately doesn't matter if you want to treat it as a guidance or not. It's official. It's not up for DM empowerment.