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Ferol, Debtor of Torm wrote:

All of my character, that can, have a 20 in their attack stat.

This includes:

A melee cleric (+5 Righteous Brands are awesome)
A great weapon fighter
A two-blade ranger
An infernal pact warlock

This is largely because a) I don't like missing and b) I always play up and when you play up everything hits you regardless of your defenses so you had might as well improve your +hit.

I don't mind tanking my other stats because everything in 4e has been so devalued. Int no longer determines how many skills you get, con barely has any effect on your hitpoints, and dex doesn't add to your AC unless you are wearing light armor.

I agree that you can do just fine with a 16. I have see lots of effective 16 stat characters. I would just never play one.

It also makes you a poor team player. Combat is only one piece of D&D. When the group fails a skill challenge because you don't have the stats to support your skills, you have failed the group. Similarly, when your melee oriented cleric provides 2-3 points fewer healing with each healing word, you are failing your allies who rely on you for that healing. And, despite what you claim, everything does not automatically hit when you play up. Attack bonuses tend to be close to +8/+9 when you play up, but that still leaves a 20-25% miss chance if you don't ignore your defenses. When you ignore your defenses, that miss chance can easily drop by 10-15%. Those additional hits just so you can hit 5% more often can easily be the difference between survival and a TPK.

The Infernal pact warlord may actually be the exception. It is a striker that stays out of melee combat, so the 20 may not be devastating to your allies. Still, with Constitution maxed, you are basically failing to participate at all in skill challenges. For the other 3 builds you listed, your choice to max out your attack skill is severely hurting the rest of the party as they are forced to cover your weakness in fulfilling your role. You have a defender (fighter) with a weak AC and striker level hit points. You have leader (cleric) that heals weakly and takes a lot of damage (forcing you to often heal yourself). You have a ranger with a low AC and that fails to have support stats for a skill set that is often critical on many skill challenges.

Honestly, those are selfish characters that are not designed to add to a party. They are simply designed to steal the show in combat. I certainly wouldn't want to have one of those characters at my table if I were a player. I would expect them to be more of a hindrance than a help.

-SYB

Ferol, Debtor of Torm wrote:

Wow, harsh. I have no idea what I said to offend you.

I have never even been close to a TPK and in fact one of my biggest gripes with LFR has been that the mods are too easy.

My fighter has the following stats:

Str 20
Con 15
Dex 10
Int 8
Wis 13
Cha 10

What fighter skills are suffering so greatly that I can't contribute in skill challenges with this stat array?

"weak AC"
He has plate proficiency. How is his AC any lower than any other great weapon fighters?

"striker level hitpoints"
Huh?

I should have realized that the fighter was an Orc. That changes the equation a little. Still doesn't change the skill contribution part. A fighter has access to three skills that are often relevant in skill challenges and/or party beneficial: Heal, Intimidate, and Streetwise. And, you have allowed all three of these to crash.

My assumption on low AC/hit points was based on an assumption that your Constitution was more limited (due to not being an Orc). Still, you could easily have an 18 Constitution (if you didn't have a 20 Strength), which would be much more beneficial to doing your primary role. Similarly, you could easily have a Reflex defense that was reasonable (heck, sword and boarders have an almost superb Reflex defense).

You didn't offend me. I didn't mean to suggest such. But, I think your characters (and characters of that nature) are not team players and that is a bad thing for LFR. If you want to feel the weight of your decisions, I recommend Inheritance. There is a combat where your decision to dump Reflex defense entirely will bite you hard in the butt (and consequently, bite your party hard, too).

-SYB