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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 5:24PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2005
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Thanks for the insight, Sean.
I am not optimistic about how this will work in practice. In order to make this work, I think you and the other global admins have to foster a culture in which replaying a scenario is rare and discouraged, if legal.
Otherwise, I can see the campaign shifting into a mode where many of us play the same scenario twice. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. But it's hardly unlikely.
If it's common for half the table to have played the game already, several kinds of stories become impossible (or seriously compromised). No plot twists, no murder mysteries, no significant unknowns to discover, and a story that pretends to do any of this can't be taken seriously.
I agree that judges eating modules has been a problem. I haven't seen much in the way of tables failing to form, though. (My experience is mostly in southern California, but I travel a lot.) I suspect that the role-playing element of the RPGA is taking a potential big hit for the sake of a modest mechanical problem.
But, I also think some top-down guidance can minimize this.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 6:05PM
#22
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Sean, thanks for the thorough reply.
I have to confess that I'm skeptical that it'll work as well as you hope, but we shall see. I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 6:07PM
#23
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2007
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for the judges burning mods the only alternate Solution that I ever came up with was to give judges AR's for the mods as if they had played them
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 6:55PM
#24
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The way I see it is we are getting more freedom and less bureaucracy, and that is a win. If you want to "farm" a mod for a certain item, why not?
I am in favor of less bureaucracy and less being under the control of a group of administrators that conveniently release and control a region's modules and storyline around their convention that they run.
Less is more, and I think this is going to end up being great for everyone involved.
The more I think about being able to play modules multiple times, the more I like it. If you really like a module or the module is just too big for you to do everything, you can really sink into it and play it multiple times and explore it in depth. Also, many mods play much differently with a 2nd level character and a high level character. This gives you a chance to explore the west wing of that drow citadel you missed the first time through.
Also, we may see mods being written especially for replay-ability and this is a great paradigm shift. Someone mentioned the train coming off the tracks earlier-and thats a good thing, because getting railroaded in a mod is getting old.
I can think of two or three modules right away that the author put so much work and depth into that it could have easily been a two rounder or played twice. Now you won't need to rush through mods-you can play it twice, or whatever you feel like doing-you have the freedom, you have the power. A couple of guys constantly complaining about needy players do not control your play experience. The mods could feature alternate goals, the mods can become more setting based. Its going to be alot more Keep on the Borderlands (finish that in 4 hours) more Lost Tomb of Martek, and Against the Giants, and a lot less of our current "Railroad, 3 encounters, ambushed outside the tavern, evil wizard with +20 init and quickened fireballs." I have played those and played them alot.
I think the writers are going to step up and these mods are going to be amazing. Its a stroke of genius. No one is going to care about cheaters when this thing gets moving, your going to be too busy having fun. Your going to be too busy with great mods that DMs want to run twice or three times, the journey has just gotten better. Your airplane ticket has just been changed from "Houston Texas to New York" to "any city to any city, you choose because your the customer."
The people are still good, the people still want to do good. This will be amazing.
Who cares about people cheating? We may even see multiple ARs in the future.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 7:57PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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I think it was a good decision. If con organizers strive to allow first time players to play mods with as few re-players as possible, I think we can be insulated from some of the more key downsides.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 8:02PM
#26
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Thank you, Sean Molley, for explaining the reasons behind being able to play an adventure multiple times. I was unhappy when I first read about this, but after reading your explanation, I am much more satisfied. Again, thank you. I guess all that I needed was an explanation.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 19, 2008 - 9:10AM
#27
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2001
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I am not optimistic about how this will work in practice. In order to make this work, I think you and the other global admins have to foster a culture in which replaying a scenario is rare and discouraged, if legal.
Otherwise, I can see the campaign shifting into a mode where many of us play the same scenario twice. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. But it's hardly unlikely. 12 regions with 4-5 mods each = 48-60 regionals a year Cores and Adapables = say 20+ rounds a year.
You're looking at up to 80+ rounds a year of content without needing to travel.
Anyone wanting to play a mod more than once would actually be doing themselves a disservice.
The only people I can actually see replaying mods would be at cons and game days so tables go off or if someone really, really wants something that is found in a mod that is perfect for one of their other characters.
With the open access of PHB items, I don't really see either being all that common, nor will that playstyle be preferred over playing new mods.
I was shocked and a little upset about this ruling when I first saw it. But now that I've calmed down, looked at the numbers involved, and thought about who I actually play with, I'm no longer concerned that this is going to be an issue.
The change does help con coordinators a lot. As someone who has helped organize several cons and game days, that's something that I can really appreciate.
Check out my free online comic! Familiar Ground Fantasy Humor, Familiar Point of View
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5 years ago ::
Jul 19, 2008 - 11:17AM
#28
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Everytime I've seen this happen the player with the inside knowledge usually deliberatly takes a passive role in the adventure, letting the other players take the spotlight and make the decisions. They do this to avoid spoiling everyone else's fun I think that we can agree that this is the best case, and that more often than not that it should occur. Now I'm sure that while we've encountered situations at tables where things are less than optimal, for the most part the players are really good people.
However, how good is this best case?
In essence you have a person that's barely playing the mod.. taking up a space so to speak. We've all encountered this at cons (and after a few nights of midnight madness it might have been us doing it) where a player doesn't seem to get into the mod that they are playing. This is unfortunate, but it happens.
It seems that this system is basically insuring that this is going to occur.. at best.
So even with players being responsible and mature about things, the play does suffer. Worse than when the table next to you is playing the same mod and is about 1-2 minutes ahead of yours...
But in the end, what does it accomplish for the betterment of the players?
Does it avoid slot 0ing problems and eating modules? Perhaps, but there are other ways that this could be done. If it's simply a question about rewards, then have a judges reward pack for eating a module. It would make this issue even more simpler than allowing them to play it later (which would basically amount to a local group getting coerced into playing many modules multiple times which seems down right silly).
Does it make mustering easier? It some ways, and makes it harder in others. I know people are going to feel strongly about having other players at the table that have already played (or ran) the adventure that they're looking to play.
Can it undue a 'bad DM' experience? Not really. Better to just avoid the DM in the future and play a new mod than one that has already been 'spoiled'.
Does it handle lack of play opportunities? With being able to play the equivalent of what 7 regions worth of LG modules per year.. is this going to be a problem? I know that there are people who traveled to more regions than that in LG (and I was one of them for awhile), but for most people it shouldn't be an issue.
And lastly, the last thing I'd want to introduce new people to the RPGA with is a table where half the players have played the module already. They won't realize it at first and wonder why no one is 'pulling their weight' in terms of decision making.. and when they do I know if I were in their place it would turn me off to the whole thing.
-James
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5 years ago ::
Jul 19, 2008 - 11:23AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Mar 24, 2005
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How does this affect the player award points you earn for playing an event? Before if you played the same mod twice, the second time was invalided. If I replay a mod, do I get points again for that? Or if three other people at the table are replaying, that would normally invalidate the whole table thus punishing the three players who had not played the mod.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 19, 2008 - 11:41AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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And lastly, the last thing I'd want to introduce new people to the RPGA with is a table where half the players have played the module already. They won't realize it at first and wonder why no one is 'pulling their weight' in terms of decision making.. and when they do I know if I were in their place it would turn me off to the whole thing. This is unlikely. The re-players have to tell the DM that they have played before. Unless they huddle with the DM and whisper it to him, it shouldn't be a surprise. Most gamers I have met are very courteous, and at Cons I would expect them when forming tables to tell their group they are replaying.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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