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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:07AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2003
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I see the positives, I really do:
•*No more 4-man tables because people have already played a mod; and no more tables dissolving when that same 4-man table's rogue finds the AR meaning he's already played.
•*No more 'missing out' when you find the item your paladin really wanted was in a mod played with your wizard.
But no matter what, people will use their prior knowledge in-game. "I really don't want to go down that tunnel." and "I'm gonna look for traps here... oh, I'm gonna look again... I failed? I'll give it one more try! Oh look there IS one."
Plain and simple, they'll have that knowledge and (if they're a good person) sub-consciously they'll act differently. Cheaters, of course, will have a field day.
This completely (for me) invalidates the idea of LFR, and even D&D 4e being a "role-playing" game... and instead just being a series of miniature battles, able to be played again and again and again.
Very disappointing.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:12AM
#2
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I have to say I agree. It's a little disappointing, but I still have faith in the campaign regardless of this speed bump.
What makes it digestible for me is the fact that you can choose not to replay adventures if you'd like. This rule puts the option in the hands of the players. This way, if you play a mod you really like, you can say "I'd really love to play this with my friends" and play it again. Alternatively, you could opt out of doing so for the reasons described above.
I think there just has to be firm control over people on an iterative run so that they don't ruin the adventure for the first-timers.
Dave Kay
LFR Writing Director Retiree
dkay807 [at] yahoo [dot] com
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:21AM
#3
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The different trap rules probably mean it's less easily disabled with a single roll.
But really, it just makes it legal (and encouraged) for people to play through a mod a second time in a combat-only capacity. For a reward.
I've seen a few times where the 4-man table falls apart and we play anything with the 4th person just being quiet. Same thing, only now he can get some xp and treasure (and risk death again).
I imagine a "no spoilers" house rule and glares from party members would keep some of the OOC knowledge to a minimum, but it does help if the party hits a brick wall.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:28AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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But no matter what, people will use their prior knowledge in-game. "I really don't want to go down that tunnel." and "I'm gonna look for traps here... oh, I'm gonna look again... I failed? I'll give it one more try! Oh look there IS one."
Plain and simple, they'll have that knowledge and (if they're a good person) sub-consciously they'll act differently. Cheaters, of course, will have a field day.
But ultimately, basically there's no benefit to cheating. So you didn't trigger the trap in the tunnel - if no one died at the end of the mod, you come out equivalent to the person who didn't cheat.
That's really different than LG, where I've known quite a few people to go AR hunting and ask all kinds of leading questions. Those people, assuming someone eventually told them what mod to play, did benefit from cheating.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:29AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Remember that part of the "play again" rule is that you HAVE to notify the GM that you have played the adventure before, but with a different character.
I would imagine that the GM would have an ugly stick available to handle that player, if necessary. Up to, and including, using the RPGA rules to handle the situation; since they do have rules (and penalties) on cheating and such...
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:29AM
#6
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I have to say that I find this disappointing. I suppose that I can see where it'll help with some situations, but I think it tremendously takes away from the role-playing aspect of playing an adventure. I'd be very curious to hear from anyone who was involved in writing this rule, as to why they made this very significant change.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:36AM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2007
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I too see Problems coming from this .... but of all the bonus's so far the one thats missing is this
DM's will no longer have to Burn mods
I'll be honest I cant tell you how many times in our home group you'd hear one of the 3 DM's Say "Man I wish I was playing this but oh well"
or after Red Hand of Doom one player was behind 4 -5 Levels on the rest of the Group Making it Nearly impossible to catch up to the Rest of the players
or a Personal Story Rolling my Truck at 65 mph on the Freeway Loosing 3/4ths of one chars AR Stack and wasting those Adventures
now as for the Traps Comment ... We don't know Just how Modular these Mods will be .... they experimented with "Encounter Modulation" Recently in a LG COR Mod (for those of you who have Run it you know which one I'm talking about) I Imagine the Rewards will be more static
another reason I see for doing this is Con's .... I have been to 3 Cons in my career (yes I know its not a lot) but each time I hear the Same Complaint "We Need more DM's for X and Y" imagine how this will help Con Coordinators
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:48AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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I think it tremendously takes away from the role-playing aspect of playing an adventure.
I am not involved in creating this rule but I do agree with it. As far as taking away from the roleplaying aspect of the game, I think it challenges roleplayers to play their character to the conditions of the adventure and not just walk down a familiar path the player already knows about.
How many times have you or others you know played adventures out of sequence. You wouldn't care for it to be spoiled then and that should be the motivation now. Enjoy playing with a character that sees things from a different set of eyes.
Meta-game cheating may happen, but for those that enjoy role playing, you will have many more opportunities to do so.
Lenny
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:51AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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How about this:
I play fairly regularly. Average, about a mod a week (well, two mods every other week, but it comes out the same).
We're gonna have, what 60+ mods a year? And there are 52 weeks in a year. If I start playing some mods twice, then I'll probably miss other mods entirely.
If there are people out there who could seriously play enough that they can start playing every mod mulitple times, then go right ahead.
Big Mike
Calgary AB
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 11:58AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2003
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Remember that part of the "play again" rule is that you HAVE to notify the GM that you have played the adventure before, but with a different character.
I would imagine that the GM would have an ugly stick available to handle that player, if necessary. Up to, and including, using the RPGA rules to handle the situation; since they do have rules (and penalties) on cheating and such...
LOL
If you knew how bloody IMPOSSIBLE it was to get the higher-ups in the RPGA to deal with blatant cheaters during LG, you'd rethink this statement.
We had one player who blatantly made false game days, cheated on die rolls in front of Triads, changed ability scores and printed out his own ARs and it took THREE YEARS for them to act on those rules and penalties.
We had another player who regularly promised to run modules out of region, printed up his own fake certs, and would regularly show up at conventions with blank ARs and pass them out to his cronies. Nothing was done with this guy because he switched regions.
I won't even go into the message board with AR rewards in full detail or with the guy spamming all the lists for regional modules.
Please pardon me while I laugh out loud again.
LOL
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