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Switch to Forum Live View A Case for Time Units
5 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2008 - 1:06PM #121
The_Jester
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Date Joined: Nov 1, 2003
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As has been stated, if TUs were the only reason people created alternate characters people would only ever have two characters, with the second advancing a little slower but still inevitably getting higher. Which would eventually make it just as hard for new players ("Gee, I'd like for you to play but we only have 15s and 10s).

Newpaintbrush wrote:

Continually release mods with different narrow bands of APL. Your 12th level character cannot play a mod if that mod is only for APL 2-4; your 12th level character will never be able to play that mod (barring killing the character six times deliberately). So you will use a new character.

I think there should be intro mods, APL 2-4 mods, APL 6-8 mods, APL 10-12 mods, and APL 14-16 mods, with adventures in a "series" being in increasing APLs.


With the more gradual power increase it will probably be easier for people to play together. A first or second level character has a much better chance at APL4 or 6 of both surviving and making a contribution.

As I've said before, I think it'd be easier to have odd-numbered APLs. Why have both APL2 and intro mods (which give xp as APL 2) when you could just have APL1? And with the campaign just starting it's alot harder (read: impossible) to get a higher level person to knock your average level up as the standard mod text recommends.

Plus with the ease of monster adjustment (as seen in today's preview article) it should be possible for DMs to adjust monsters on-the-fly for tables.
For example, the table is an average level of 2 so the DM can take the APL1 monsters and add AC, attack bonus, damage and HP or take the APL3 monsters and reduce them.
Heck, modules could be designed for a single broad level range (1, 5, 10, 15, etc) and adjusted accordingly for each table. It could be a level 5 module playable by characters levels 1-10.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2008 - 4:53PM #122
Newpaintbrush
Date Joined: Jun 26, 2003
Posts: 345

As I've said before, I think it'd be easier to have odd-numbered APLs. Why have both APL2 and intro mods (which give xp as APL 2) when you could just have APL1? And with the campaign just starting it's alot harder (read: impossible) to get a higher level person to knock your average level up as the standard mod text recommends.


Intro mods are supposed to be easier than regular mods, and are supposed to introduce the player to general aspects of the role-playing world. Regular mods are typically more focused. That's a reason for having a distinction between "intro mods" and "low-APL mods", I think.

As far as having mods at odd APLs, a party of 1st level characters can often handle an APL 2 mod with, say, guard dogs (25 gp each), oil (1 sp each), and lit torches (1 cp each). Not EASILY, perhaps, but it's quite possible. But then, if they were concerned about playing an easy mod, they could always opt to play an "intro" mod.

The even APL paired with the 3-levels or more from APL half XP/half gold system means that characters that are, say, 7th level playing in an APL 4 mod will get half gold and half XP. Odd levels (3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and so forth) are when many spellcasters gain a new level of spells, hence representing a significant power difference; the difference in this example is the presence of 4th level spells like empowered scorching ray and delay death at APL 4.

If you had odd APLs with a 3-level or more APL, an APL 3 mod would penalize a 6th level character for playing but not a 5th level. But a 6th level character is not THAT much stronger - sure, the 6th level character has another 3rd level spell, and has more equipment; definitely better than a 5th level character. But it's nothing like, say, having 3 more 4th level spells (for a 7th level cleric with domain spell and 18 Wisdom, or a 7th level specialist wizard with 18 Intelligence)

Plus with the ease of monster adjustment (as seen in today's preview article) it should be possible for DMs to adjust monsters on-the-fly for tables.
For example, the table is an average level of 2 so the DM can take the APL1 monsters and add AC, attack bonus, damage and HP or take the APL3 monsters and reduce them.
Heck, modules could be designed for a single broad level range (1, 5, 10, 15, etc) and adjusted accordingly for each table. It could be a level 5 module playable by characters levels 1-10.


Sorry, I'm not familiar with the preview article.

--

As I wrote before, I think restricting each mod to a narrow band of APL is the best way to encourage people to have multiple characters of different levels. Still, MatteBlack's point that this could make things difficult for convention organizers is a good one.

I suppose it's back to the drawing board.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2008 - 5:38PM #123
tombollis
Date Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 696

Newpaintbrush wrote:

Odd levels (3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and so forth) are when many spellcasters gain a new level of spells, hence representing a significant power difference; the difference in this example is the presence of 4th level spells like empowered scorching ray and delay death at APL 4.


You aren't thinking 4e, where we have been told spell llevels will equal caster levels (8th level spells at 8th level, 15th level spells at 15th level, eyc.), so your odd/even distinction won't apply. Spells that carry over from 3.5 D&D will have new levels in 4e. progression in power from one level to the next is supposed to be more uniform than it has been.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2008 - 6:03PM #124
The_Jester
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Date Joined: Nov 1, 2003
Posts: 3,509

Newpaintbrush wrote:

Intro mods are supposed to be easier than regular mods, and are supposed to introduce the player to general aspects of the role-playing world. Regular mods are typically more focused. That's a reason for having a distinction between "intro mods" and "low-APL mods", I think.


True, but for the first little while ALL mods will essentially be intro mods to the game and region and storyarcs.

Newpaintbrush wrote:

As far as having mods at odd APLs, a party of 1st level characters can often handle an APL 2 mod with, say, guard dogs (25 gp each), oil (1 sp each), and lit torches (1 cp each). Not EASILY, perhaps, but it's quite possible. But then, if they were concerned about playing an easy mod, they could always opt to play an "intro" mod.


But there's no guarantee parties will be able to buy any of those. Or that hunting dogs will pose any challenge for a monster (they might be considered minions).

Newpaintbrush wrote:

The even APL paired with the 3-levels or more from APL half XP/half gold system means that characters that are, say, 7th level playing in an APL 4 mod will get half gold and half XP. Odd levels (3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and so forth) are when many spellcasters gain a new level of spells, hence representing a significant power difference; the difference in this example is the presence of 4th level spells like empowered scorching ray and delay death at APL 4.
If you had odd APLs with a 3-level or more APL, an APL 3 mod would penalize a 6th level character for playing but not a 5th level. But a 6th level character is not THAT much stronger - sure, the 6th level character has another 3rd level spell, and has more equipment; definitely better than a 5th level character. But it's nothing like, say, having 3 more 4th level spells (for a 7th level cleric with domain spell and 18 Wisdom, or a 7th level specialist wizard with 18 Intelligence)


Post above mine handles this nicely.
But a broad-band system that's adjustable could give XP for the exact APL and not just the closest of 2.

Newpaintbrush wrote:

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the preview article.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080418a

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