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5 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2008 - 4:23AM
#1
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So, I need to play Ruins of Castle Greyhawk since I foolishly levelled my favoured soul out of range of it because I a) let myself get strongarmed into games I didn't really want to play and b) can't count because I am a moron.
So, I've decided to replace said favoured soul with a "cleric" of Olidimarra. The plan is as follows:
Human
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 10
Int: 18
Wis: 16
Cha: 8
All levels Beguiler
1st
Feat: Arcane Disciple: Healing
Feat: Spontaneous Healer
3rd
Feat: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
6th
Feat: Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
... and I doubt I'll get higher than 6th. Anyway, the build means he's a rogue-y type dude who can do the whole finding traps thing, while doing the healing thing (at full caster level/spell progression), WHILE doing the arcane thing too. I think it's neat.
So, yeah. Thoughts? One option that stands out is to start as a grey elf and grab Spontaneous Healer at third- it's increased DCs for spells and higher search/disable device, but it means I can't "do my thing" from level one. Given how short this character's life is going to be, doing his trick from level one is a big plus. Worth it?
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5 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2008 - 6:50AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Beguilers don't get Knowledge Religion. Olidimmara doesn't get the Healing domain. The best are Pelor and Velnius(doesn't get Healing domain, but gets some really nice domain choices). Nola and Atroa aren't bad. You basically have to be human, because you need both the well-read feat and the arcane disciple healing feat at 1st level to make it work at level 1. If you have until level 6, you can go into Unseen Seer and save a feat. Unfortunately, with my character, that just wasn't an option due to role-playing considerations from levels 1-5.
Anyway, that's why my 'Favored Beguiler of Pelor' worships Pelor...
Human(Flan)
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8
1: Beguiler 1: Well-read, Arcane Disciple(Healing)
2: Beguiler 2
3: Beguiler 3: Arcane Disciple(Purification)
4: Beguiler 4: Int 17
5: Beguiler 5: Silent Spell
6: Beguiler 6: Skill Focus(Knowledge(religion)
7: Divine Oracle 1
8: Beguiler 7: Int 18
9: Beguiler 8: Craft Wondrous Item
10: Beguiler 9
11: Beguiler 10: Still Spell
12: Loremaster 1: Arcane Disciple(Sun), Arcane Disciple(Good), Wis 15
He's a really weird kind of broken - he has all the spells necessary to craft a Bead of Karma and cast Holy Word at 14th. All he needs is Ioun Stone of +2 Wisdom and Bead access. He could also UMD scrolls of Owl's Wisdom.
Interesting Spells:
2: Glitterdust, Silence, Knock, See Invisibility
3: Recitation, Haste, Divination, Magic Circle, Dispel Magic, Slow, Arcane Sight
4: Holy Smite, Freedom of Movement, Confusion, Solid Fog, Scrying
5: Mass CLW, Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Flame Strike, Commune, Dance of the Unicorn
6: Heal, Blade Barrier, Fire Seeds, Greater Dispel Magic, Mass Suggestion, True Seeing, Fires of Purity
7: Holy Word, Power Word Blind, Greater Arcane Sight, Sunbeam, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful
He ends up acting something like a Favored Soul in play, just with a better spell list - except that he's also a trapfinder and skill monkey. At 5th, he has Eyes of the Eagle, so his Spot check is +15 as an example.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2008 - 7:19AM
#3
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Any 'cleric' is going to have some serious competition for the neck slot. Do you raise your wisdom, or add more constitution?
I'd strongly suggest a starting INT of 17, and a starting CON of 12. You'll be back on track by 4th level, but those hit points will help.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2008 - 8:58AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Any 'cleric' is going to have some serious competition for the neck slot. Do you raise your wisdom, or add more constitution?
I'd strongly suggest a starting INT of 17, and a starting CON of 12. You'll be back on track by 4th level, but those hit points will help.
You don't really need a superhigh wisdom to pull this off - you just need a high enough wisdom to legally cast the spell. As an example, I have a 14 Wisdom right now - that's good until I get to 10th level. By 9th level, I have CWI, so I can either craft an Ioun Stone, an Amulet of Wis +2 to wear when necessary, or just use my UMD score to read scrolls of Owl's Wisdom.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2008 - 9:35AM
#5
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So, I need to play Ruins of Castle Greyhawk since I foolishly levelled my favoured soul out of range of it because I a) let myself get strongarmed into games I didn't really want to play and b) can't count because I am a moron.
Didn't you say that your "favored beguiler" is just reaching 6th? If so, you haven't leveled out. Don't remember that CGR7-02 can be played at APL 4, that CGR8-01 can be played at APL 6, that you're allowed to play down 3 levels and take half XP & GP, and that a party that consists of characters that all are legal to play at the highest level of the adventure can still play that adventure, even if their APL is 4 higher than the max (e.g. six 7th level characters can still go through CGR7-02).
You probably won't be challenged by it, however, which may be reason enough to create a new character.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2008 - 9:46AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Didn't you say that your "favored beguiler" is just reaching 6th? If so, you haven't leveled out.
Puggle's character is leveling out. My Favored Beguiler is just about to hit 6th.
All hail Pelor!
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5 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2008 - 7:17AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2004
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How useful is that healing really going to be? You are investing an awful lot in being able to cast just one healing spell of each tier rather than making yourself better at what you're already good at ...and you could just UMD a 'happy stick' at relatively very little cost (as well as all the other UMD options you get with it)
For the investment your contemplating I would seriously consider buying a few scrolls of higher level cures for combat use and a wand for downtime -you could then put all those resources back into being an outstanding Beguiler and prevent most of the damage -combinging the juicy spell list with the high DCs, GEBegs can end combats a lot better than you are going to be able to heal people ..and that Search bonus is really nice at low-mid levels.
Remember that actions are the scarcest resource in combat.
However if you must have this character:
My Cleric has lower Wisdom than that! -Con Cha and Dex could all benefit a lot from those points ..but at least you won't be tempted to get into melee ...except that you're planning to heal the frontliners :rolleye2: :raincloud
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5 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2008 - 8:27AM
#8
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I agree, your stats need some adjusting.
For example, go ahead and calculate your encumbrance with a chain shirt, a buckler, MW thieves tools, and a spell component pouch. You'll be REAL close to moving at 20', and usual 'thief' gear, like rope will put you right over the top.
Timlagor, my guess is that the addition of Spontaneous Healer allows him to convert his entire spell list into healing domain spells. That's a lot of healing, potentially.
As far as grey elf goes, lowering your CON to 8 means that you'll never get that third level feat. You'll just get killed a lot at APL 2. I wouldn't do it. I know, you want your DC's as high as humanly possible. But look at the Will save on a kobold, an orc, or a troll. It's not that good.
I'd also consider Craft Wondrous, but I haven't looked at the beguiler spell list to see if there's anything you could actually make. If you can craft, say, a headband of intellect +2, then it's every bit as good as Spell Focus, and will allow you to do a lot of other things as well.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2008 - 1:54PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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How useful is that healing really going to be? You are investing an awful lot in being able to cast just one healing spell of each tier rather than making yourself better at what you're already good at ...and you could just UMD a 'happy stick' at relatively very little cost (as well as all the other UMD options you get with it)
In practice, actually, it has been pretty useful. There are times where either you don't have a cleric or the cleric has something more important to do - and the ability to heal say 3d8+6 at APL 6 with a touch is not a bad thing.
The other thing about Beguilers is that they sometimes run out of significantly useful actions at low APL - once you glitterdust an opponent, they tend to be immune to a lot of your actions. Which might sound as if it isn't a problem, but in the wrong party, it can be - being able to heal the tank back into combat can be more useful than a 2d6 whelm...
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5 years ago ::
Mar 19, 2008 - 6:59AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2004
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I hadn't taken account of the Spontaneous Healer but from what I recall that's a distinctly dubious ruling.
MwaO: I really have to wonder what party could need the Beguiler for healing once the enemy is blind ...I can certainly see that healing would be useful but I still think I'd rather sit with a focussed Beguiler in the vast majority of cases. Beguilers already have three main party contributions:
- find & disable traps [I'd probably take Skill Focus DD and Imrpoved Initiative as my first two Feats]
- social skills
- good spellcasting (certainly there are gaps but it's still a powerful list)
Have you experimented with Images? Even something as simple as an Image of a Wall ought to be seriously useful against anything that can see and there's no initial save* if they don't have Spellcraft so they ought to waste at least one action on it.
It's that Wisdom that really hurts the original build of course.
* I gather there are GMs out there who adjudicate this wrong which could cause you problems to it's worth checking before you actually declare the action.
[I certainly wasn't advocating a Con of 8.
I wouldn't wear a (non-Mithral) chain shirt with a Beguiler myself and a HHH is obviously a priority for anyone with low Strength]
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