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5 years ago ::
Mar 12, 2008 - 10:32AM
#1
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How do you want the access system to be handled in LFR?
One of the main goals of 4th edition was allowing players to make their characters the way they wanted by not limiting their options.
Magic items are now found in the players handbook.
One of the most confusing parts of the LGCS was access and keeping track of what was in and out.
Should access to these be fully open?
How would you like the LFR campaign document to handle access?
I say open completely for all PHBs and the FRCS. Once a new PHB comes out it becomes legal in 3 months. That should be enough time for people to have become familiar with it.
Things outside the PHB should be handled by a set policy rather than on a case by case basis that ends up generating a huge confusing and capricious open/ closed access list.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 12, 2008 - 4:25PM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
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It already appears that magic items are restricted by level from the get go. So that will fit into LFR much better. The only time to worry about access and restrictions is when the fluff books and PHB 2 etc come out.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 13, 2008 - 5:00AM
#3
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
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It already appears that magic items are restricted by level from the get go. So that will fit into LFR much better. The only time to worry about access and restrictions is when the fluff books and PHB 2 etc come out.
Aside from rings being restricted to Level 11 for one and 21 for two, no magic items are restricted.
Instead they have a "suggested" level for balance and pricing guidelines.
(LFR rules may, of course, vary)
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide  Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
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5 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2008 - 3:08AM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
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Aside from rings being restricted to Level 11 for one and 21 for two, no magic items are restricted.
Instead they have a "suggested" level for balance and pricing guidelines.
(LFR rules may, of course, vary)
The recommended levels on the items would be very convienent for LFR to restrict things etc
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5 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2008 - 6:42AM
#5
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I'm hoping that gold is set like it is in Living Greyhawk (you usually know how much gold you are getting from a module before you play it), but access is opened up a lot (IE magic mart). I'm not a big fan of the "access lottery", because all it does is punish honest players and reward dishonest players.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2008 - 6:42AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2001
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The recommended levels on the items would be very convienent for LFR to restrict things etc
Without details on how magic items are revised it makes it difficult to draw any conclusions....but then speculating is half the fun.
My basic rule of thumb is that a permanent item > charged item > spell.
So I would rank items by tiers.
I suppose one restriction would be:
The tier after you gain access to a spell, you gain access to a charged version of the spell.
The tier after you gain access to a charged version of the spell, you gain access to the permanent version of the spell.
i.e.
So a first level spell is available as a scroll or potion at 3rd level and a permanent item at 5th.
A rough equivalent would be a +1 atk/+1 dam spell. Magic Weapon is available at first. Scroll or Oils of Magic Weapon would be available at 3rd. Finally, +1 weapons would be accessible at 5th.
Or maybe a variation in that 'access' = can use. So maybe you buy the +1 weapon at 4th level but you cannot wield it as a +1 weapon until you hit 5th level.
Bah, sounds like too much bookkeeping and more rules. Let's keep the LFRCS short, say oh...10 pages. :p
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5 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2008 - 7:50AM
#7
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I'd like to see open access, based on approved books. Everything in the PHB and DMG should be open for example, while an Eberron specific book may not be appropriate for an FR campaign.
Limiting magic items to the suggested level might be a good idea given the nature of the campaign.
But other than that, we should have as few "meta-game" rules as practical.
Allen.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2008 - 7:54AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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Speaking only for myself and my personal preferences, my hope is that LFR can find a way to enable and enact what the designers of 4e D&D envision as the "typical and best D&D play experience." Other than allowing people in a worldwide organized play campaign to come together and play D&D, I want to get out of the business of telling people HOW to play or creating a dizzying amount of extra campaign documentation.
Obviously, there is some gray area of reality within that black-and-white idealism. There are always decisions, no matter how large or small a campaign, that the DM must make. And the campaign staff is going to have to make and enforce those decisions. But the closer we can get to simply saying, "Just play the game using the published rules," the better.
Shawn
Global Admin - Living Forgotten Realms
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5 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2008 - 1:25PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2004
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I've been seeing a lot of calls for opening up access, and..that's great and all, but I don't like what those suggestions would seem to do to the reward structure of the game.
In Living Greyhawk, for instance, completing an adventure could grant access rules items. In my opinion, this was a great way of giving players something more for an adventure than just a pack of gold and experience points. I've had some of the ARs that basically granted nothing to anyone, and that never feels good.
Now, that isn't to say that there aren't better ways to reward players out there. The favors that gave free upkeep or a special ability that you could use a certain number of times (free one-shot Time Stop!) were great. Meta-org related favors could also be great. I even have a favor or two that raise my character's abilities inherently, although those are understandably rare.
I prefer the second category of rewards, but I think that they can only take you so far. Not every adventure record (or the LFR equivalent) can have that sort of thing, I think. It would start feeling silly after a while if it did, anyway.
I also disagree that limiting access to items and other rules options rewards cheaters and punishes honest players. I don't worry about what the cheaters are doing...they're not playing the same game that I am. In terms of what limiting access (appropriately) does for the honest players, I feel that it makes a better game because there are things to win out there. I wouldn't like the game as much if I could get absolutely any rules option I wanted and the only thing I ever needed was experience and gold. I guess some people hate the access hunt, but it'd be a lesser game for me without.
The near-constant agony of never being able to find the right items is part of the fun in Living Greyhawk for me...especially if it's occaisionally accompanied by finding something I've been wanting for a long time. My Spellsword finally got Twilight armor access!
Obviously there needs to be a balance. Withholding all access until the right items are found can be overly restrictive just as much as granting all access removes the access reward structure completely. I thought that the year 7 LGCS did a good job in this area...there were plenty of basic items to fit the overall needs of almost every character, but there were still lots of items to seek out.
In the end, I think that some sort of Closed list is almost inevitable. Restrictions against rules items that don't belong in the Realms or against evil-aligned material is something I'm assuming at the moment, and power balancing will need to occur at some point down the road. Hopefully the Closed list can be kept relatively small, however.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2008 - 1:50PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2007
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Obviously there needs to be a balance. Withholding all access until the right items are found can be overly restrictive just as much as granting all access removes the access reward structure completely. I thought that the year 7 LGCS did a good job in this area...there were plenty of basic items to fit the overall needs of almost every character, but there were still lots of items to seek out.
I've always thought that a good compromise would be to shamelessly steal something from the Eberron campaigns - the idea of expansion slots. Every X levels, pick any Limited rules item and it becomes Open for that character. If X is set at the right point, then you still can't have everything you want without found access, but you can be assured of getting the things you really want, and you're not totally hosed because you missed that one mod written by an author who agrees with you about what things are cool to have access to.
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