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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 10:59AM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2003
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So I just got bombed out of a 64-man draft by back-to-back turn 4 Gideon, Champion of Justice  , and it got me wondering: What should be the percentage of "games drawn" that you win with any given card in limited, before it is just stupid? That is, if you take every game where a person draws a given card, and calculate the percetage of those games that they win. It feels like Gideon (along with a few other low-mana-mythics and maybe Pack Rat  ?) has got to be above to 90% mark. At that point, the entire match comes down to "did the player draw the card?", which is essentially a weighted coin flip. Boring, irritating, and a huge turn-off for any format.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 11:02AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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Magic raraties help out here. You cannot expect that each (or many) drafts/sealeds will be won/played with Mythics. Pack Rat on the other hand is just annoying. It's not unbeatable but still not fun/interactive.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 11:09AM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2003
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Magic raraties help out here. You cannot expect that each (or many) drafts/sealeds will be won/played with Mythics.
Pack Rat on the other hand is just annoying. It's not unbeatable but still not fun/interactive.
But making it rarer doesn't really change anything. Since this was a 64 man draft, for example, its incredibly likely that at least one person will pull a Gideon*, and then if you are the poor sap that plays against them, you don't get to play at all. They draw, you lose, and the only good strategic choice you could have made in the tournament was to raredraft since you were doomed either way. Not much fun for a strategy game that I'm paying through the nose for.
If making it less frequent was a good solution, why not just remove it entirely? *In this particular draft, I know for a fact that at least two people did, because both my round one and round two opponent had one. I went 2-1 match one and 0-2 match two. Guess which three games the opponent drew it?
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 11:38AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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If you remove all the cards that are too powerfull for a limited enviroment then you risk in making the constructed enviroment very stellar/not powerfull.
That's assuming cards are printed with boosters which fuel both limited and contructed.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 4:51PM
#5
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One of the reasons why I really liked 4-pack sealed was the chance of drawing my bomb(s) was much greater. I hate it when I draft a great bomb rare and lose our first round having never been able to play it.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 9:39AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2004
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I think a bomb is "fair" when there are common answers to it in most colors (blue always has the answer). By that criterion, Gideon is extremely unfair. Once it resolves, it's game over.
I understand it was printed for constructed, but maybe we could get it banned in limited? (I know this is a new concept, but after all, why not?) As long as it pays for another draft, it would still mean something when you open it in limited, even if you can't play it.
50. Doesn't hurt. Yet.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 10:20AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2003
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I've gotten beaten after playing an early Gideon and I've beaten people with an early Gideon. He's very strong, but he's hardly the be-all-end-all. I've definitely won more games because of a turn 4 Rubblebelt Raiders  than a turn 4 Gideon (and not just because I've drafted the rare slightly more often than the mythic rare).
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4 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 1:59PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2006
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One of the reasons why I really liked 4-pack sealed was the chance of drawing my bomb(s) was much greater. I hate it when I draft a great bomb rare and lose our first round having never been able to play it.
That's one of the reasons I like Selaed swiss queues more than drafts...
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4 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 3:16PM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2003
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I've gotten beaten after playing an early Gideon and I've beaten people with an early Gideon.
That's true of pretty much any card (I beat a turn-2 pack rat once, and lost with a turn-2 Jitte, for example). But do you think that is more common than 1 in 10? I don't actually know, but Wizards could probably datamine a number like that. You must admit that there is *some point* at which a certain card is too strong - The question here is, what is that point?
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4 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 3:19PM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2003
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I understand it was printed for constructed, but maybe we could get it banned in limited? (I know this is a new concept, but after all, why not?) As long as it pays for another draft, it would still mean something when you open it in limited, even if you can't play it.
Banning is one option, albeit a little inelegant (what happens if you open it in Sealed? You're just down a card?). Another option is adding some additional drawback (like an additional 2 in the mana cost) to bring it down a peg.
Even without a change to the current format, they could look for examples like this and just design more balanced cards in the future.
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