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4 months ago ::
Feb 14, 2013 - 7:18AM
#21
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Since i originanlly posted to this thread, a lot of the arguments have turned to EV (as they often do). It's not all about EV for me and many others, though. Sure, being able to play more competitive matches for the amount I can afford to spend is part of it - but the overall online experience continues to degrade in other significant ways. For recent examples, the nerf to MOPRs and doing away with 4-pack sealed recently were definite downers for me. The trend towards phantom events and towards things like non-tradeable cube tickets is another. It's a trading card game...for many of us, building a collection and opening powerful/money cards we can keep is a huge part of the experience. Having something on the line for wins and losses is big too, specific EV calculations aside. Don't lose sight of what made people play the online game in the first place in the quest for the biggest bottom line.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 14, 2013 - 7:32AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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You know what's rarely seen in these threads? Comparisons to paper.
Paper - 36 boosters in a box = $80 | MTGO 36 VIRTUAL boosters = 4*$36 = $154
Off of bots ~3*$36 = $108
**Add redemption at $100/set
Paper Draft payout at local shop:
Cost = 6*$3.50 a booster = $21
Payout = ~same in booster prizes or better
Competetion = Wins * 99.99999% more often than MTGO
MTGO Draft
Cost = $2 + 6 boosters at ~3 from bots = $20
Payout = ~ same or worse
Competition = Wins * 0.00000001% as often as paper
Why am I playing online again?
Oh yea, because buring commons in the backyard is illegal where I live and those big binders are a pain to alphabetize while waiting for the complete set to fill up, I don't like driving in traffic, my local shop smells like a dead cat and someone who hasn't bathed for a year. Is it worth the cost difference? I am beginning to wonder.
MSRP on a box is $144. If a shop is selling for $80 I wouldn't expect them to be in business very long.(after CC fees they are making around 5 bucks per box if that which isn't going to keep the lights on very long or allow them to run a nice shop that people want to come to)
 Cape Fear Games located in Wilmington, NC. Get 20% extra MTGO credit for your paper cards.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:37PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2012
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MSRP on a box is $144. If a shop is selling for $80 I wouldn't expect them to be in business very long.(after CC fees they are making around 5 bucks per box if that which isn't going to keep the lights on very long or allow them to run a nice shop that people want to come to)
Well, I won't name names, but this particualr store has been doing it for more than 5 years and stays open with no problem. Even so, I can go to any of the 10-12 stores in my local Austin TX/San Antonio area and find boxes between $80-$120. Noone sells MSRP....except the MTGO client......
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4 months ago ::
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:44PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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Well, I won't name names, but this particualr store has been doing it for more than 5 years and stays open with no problem. Even so, I can go to any of the 10-12 stores in my local Austin TX/San Antonio area and find boxes between $80-$120. Noone sells MSRP....except the MTGO client......
Walmart sells at MSRP, as do many other chain stores that younger or unlucky Paper Magic players have to resort to when they live in an area without a LGS selling Magic at deal rates to get bodies in the building for events and things.
EDIT: Even my LGS only goes down to $100.00 for pre-orders and $120.00 once a set comes out, while the local Walmart has been chugging along at $140.00 + tax since the release.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!
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4 months ago ::
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:54PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jul 10, 2007
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"then gets driven back to the stores"
There you have it. They got 22 sweatbeads so far this year from this cat.
"They were civilized they even drank their blood from a cup"→James Silke/Frank Frazzeta "When the Cryptkeeper sticks 'em they tend to stay stuck"→Cryptkeeper "Do not blame the current developers if there is something you don't like about Magic Online. Chances are no one asked the developers for their opinion."→elf "They just look at me like I'm stupid and then I just say something like well you know WOTC does some dumb things sometimes."→wilmheath "Like just about everything I've experienced with MTGO and the Magic WotC website, I'm finding it difficult to..."→0rbit "the more general question is: at what point does an easily fixable interface issue become a defect?"→silentbobus "Imagine, only four years later and I almost have as much functionality as I used to."→Algona "WotC, you make an awesome game, why do you have to suck so bad at letting people have a fun time?"→MTGKaioshin "If you are all about playing as many games as possible as fast as possible and you KNOW you have me beat, then concede and move on"→Johnh2005 "Wow. You're a real pleasure to help. Good luck figuring it out by yourself."→tempesteye "2hg brokest of the broke"→Me, Myself & I "It's you against the shuffler."→jwark "this look like freeware that some kid down the street crafted up"→ProtossX "ask them if the world came to an economic end tomorrow, whether they think little printed pieces of paper could be traded for actual goods or services"→dangerlinto Server status→ http://www.wizards.com/magic/magiconlineserverstatus.asp
Love or hate me I was brought to you courtesy of V3!
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4 months ago ::
Feb 14, 2013 - 1:29PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2009
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You know what's rarely seen in these threads? Comparisons to paper.
That's because the economics is so different. Nobody in paper complains about the price of RTR or GTC boosters. If what we crack online was worth the same as what we crack in paper... NOBODY would be complaining about EV or prizes.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 15, 2013 - 2:00PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2004
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For recent examples, the nerf to MOPRs and doing away with 4-pack sealed recently were definite downers for me. The trend towards phantom events and towards things like non-tradeable cube tickets is another.
I was very much against doing away with the four-booster sealed. But I must say, having tried the six-booster version a bit more lately, that the six-booster sealed is a better format, simply because you can almost always build a consistent deck. And, after having won a prerelease with a Dimir mill deck, I can see four-booster would be just terrible with Dimir around.
50. Doesn't hurt. Yet.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 6:39AM
#28
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The nature of online collecting and supported formats makes online a radically different and lower value format than paper. Needing a maximum of one of any given card (singleton formats) or four of any card (others) significantly depresses the value of many cards versus paper, especially staple cards like duals, utility effects, etc. The lack of support for formats outside of modern and standard also greatly reduces the value of most cards - EDH has declined significantly since it shot up when the commander decks were released online, casual is stagnant, and all the speciality formats have either shrunk dramatically due to WoTC decisions or died altogether (looking at you, vanguard). All of these differences mean you are opening significantly less virtual value in an online pack than a paper one, and that used to be reflected in their differing virtual prices. The changes to redemption only exacerbate this problem.
In any case, a big part of my point in the OP is that paper magic is not the only point of comparison, and is in fact the outlier. It has literally never been easier or cheaper to get all your strategy and diversion needs filled by other, radically cheaper alternatives to Magic Online. Greatly upping the virtual price of Magic Online in this situation is insane, and I worry about them doing so not only because I want to play magic in a cost effective manner but because I would like the game to succeed over the long term, and I believe they're courting dangerous player base burnout.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 7:08AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2004
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MSRP on a box is $144. If a shop is selling for $80 I wouldn't expect them to be in business very long.(after CC fees they are making around 5 bucks per box if that which isn't going to keep the lights on very long or allow them to run a nice shop that people want to come to)
Well, I won't name names, but this particualr store has been doing it for more than 5 years and stays open with no problem. Even so, I can go to any of the 10-12 stores in my local Austin TX/San Antonio area and find boxes between $80-$120. Noone sells MSRP....except the MTGO client......
There's at least one store local to me (Twin Cities, MN) that does a fair amount of volume all the time that always does box pre-orders at $80/box. Dunno what they charge after the pre-orders are done, but I was definitely happy to get a box of GTC for that price. Of course, they're also a fairly big comic book/warhammer/other games store, too; they don't live & die solely by MTG, so maybe that's why they can afford to sacrifice margin for volume to that degree.
Mountain bikes are for slow people, and geckos are far better pets than cats & dogs! :D Officially licensed user of the term "GrammarChaos" (Thanks Tempesteye!) MPDC Season 3 Champion
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4 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:12AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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MSRP on a box is $144. If a shop is selling for $80 I wouldn't expect them to be in business very long.(after CC fees they are making around 5 bucks per box if that which isn't going to keep the lights on very long or allow them to run a nice shop that people want to come to)
Well, I won't name names, but this particualr store has been doing it for more than 5 years and stays open with no problem. Even so, I can go to any of the 10-12 stores in my local Austin TX/San Antonio area and find boxes between $80-$120. Noone sells MSRP....except the MTGO client......
There's at least one store local to me (Twin Cities, MN) that does a fair amount of volume all the time that always does box pre-orders at $80/box. Dunno what they charge after the pre-orders are done, but I was definitely happy to get a box of GTC for that price. Of course, they're also a fairly big comic book/warhammer/other games store, too; they don't live & die solely by MTG, so maybe that's why they can afford to sacrifice margin for volume to that degree.
Obviously there are some stores that can do it that either sell online or have other income sources but it doesn't take someone with a degree in business to realize that netting $5 bucks on a $80 purchase isn't going to keep the lights on.
Cape Fear Games located in Wilmington, NC. Get 20% extra MTGO credit for your paper cards.
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