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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 8:29AM
#71
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The first question is whether the P9 are supposed to be highly priced, super collectable cards, or whether they are supposed to allow people to play sanctioned Vintage online. If the former, Wizards can release a couple dozen to maybe a hundred and call it quits. Prices will stay really high, and Vintage will never take off. If Vintage is to survive, then ennough copies of the power need to be released that players have a reasonable shot ofcollecting a playset or the P9 at a less than insane price. That means a large number of cards need to roll out, since a lot of those opened will be kept by people aiming to get into the format eventally, by collectors, etc. Only a small percentage will wind up in the hands of dealers. If Vintage is to be a thing, enough copies have to get to tournament players that events can fire. Wizards has good numbers on this, but I would expect that getting 16 player queues to fire means that the number of P9 cards distributed has to be in the thousands or more, not dozens or hundreds.
I don't know the online numbers, but in paper, the number of casual-only players is at least an order of magnitude higher than the number of tournament players, and the number of players playing only Regular REL events is at least ten times the number of players playing in PTQs, SCG Opens, GPs, etc. In paper, casual players own the majority of the P9 cards, and don't sell them. I have no reason to expect than the online crowd is different.
PRJ - "one million words" on MTGO
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 10:17AM
#72
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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So what is the downside to doing it ME5 style and having them as mythics? I see absolutely no downside to this at all and it gives everyone an equal chance to open them AND we can draft them.
Asmodemusx - Why all the anti secondary market talk? You act like there are a bunch of evil dealers just waiting to hoard them all and not let anyone buy them until they are 200 each. The hoarding is typically not done by the dealers I will tell you that much. The ones that run a solid business care much more about having all cards in stock and keeping the flow moving instead of hoarding cards. Just my 3 cents.
Cape Fear Games located in Wilmington, NC. Get 20% extra MTGO credit for your paper cards.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:06AM
#73
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2007
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It wasn't me who thought you're a shill.
I just don't think they will sell P9 in their store. I don't think they will release ME5 either. As a fan of promos I think P9 cards will be promotional rewards a they will go under PRM tab 
I metioned before I don't want to play in countless of tourneys to only get a chance to win some P9 cards and there should be one type of tournament where ppl can win them. And there could be some minor special tourney as well:
1. What about Spellslinging? Send every one wotc member available so as many as possible players can get a chance to fight with them. 2. What about a Community Cup celebration? Members of CC Team can get one copy (foil if their team wins the Cup) and if wizards lose there can be placed some special tournament queues where ppl can win P9 cards. Just loose thoughts.
That would be incredibly expensive for WOTC to have their employees to let people queue to play them to give out cards. Instead of the people doing their job they would spend so many hours playing online. So no new development or any productivity, just people playing magic online.
The issue with both of your suggestions is that it would be very limiting and it would also make it so few people could actually get them. You need a way for anybody in the client who wants it to have a chance at it. Be they good or bad players.
Mythics in ME5 just make too much sense for them not to do something like that. It rewards people who are good players because you can draft it, win the draft, get more product to do more drafts. Rinse and repeat. It also gives all people a chance to open them because they could just open packs if they didn't want to bother drafting. Then it also makes them money as they could sell packs.
I don't think they should put FOW or the dual lands in ME5 if they do this. That would devalue the other ME_ products. They will put other value in it and make an interesting draft, but they will not do it in a way to make it so the other ME drafts never happen again.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:12AM
#74
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2007
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1. Well they're gonna sell them somewhere. Better in a whole set than piece by piece if you're actually playing a classic set.
Q1. Are you suggesting the P9 should be free? I'd be fine with that. If we're living in candy fairy land.
2. The money spent in history is simply a way of limiting the sets in circulation. Which seems to be something EVERYONE is on board with.
Q2. Are you suggesting they make them easy to get? Personally I have no problem with easy to get. Only casuals and non Vintage players strongly believe in "maintaing the myth."
3. Actually if you're got a decent history in MTGO you'd have to play in no events. Again, I'm suggesting a concept of how they could be distributed, the actual numbers were just an example. I'd be happy with every winner of an 8 man getting a piece of their choice :P
But hey, it's Wizards, they're not a company. I'm sure they're looking for a non- business revinue way to implement the P9. I for one will LOVE when they just give away a full set to every account as a 20th anniversary gift. No really. I would love this. I just want the cards, I couldn't care less if the casual rooms are full of people crying about power. Ready access to every card is fine for people who actually play real constructed decks.
But hey, at least you gave some reasons...
They can just follow their business model that has gotten them to this point. Put them randomly in product and sell the product. That can be how they sell it.
Your suggestions would give a huge backlash from their users. In order for you to get something of value from us you have to spend thousands of dollars for a chance to get it, and then spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on top of that to get it. Limiting it by such extreme financial support to mtgo is why people call your idea being a shill for the company.
Not sure if you are just trolling, or if you just don't have long term business sense and are childish?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:18AM
#75
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2005
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Just give me a few thousand of each card. I'll distribute them. I won't even charge tix for it, I'll just hand them out to people who amuse me.
We tried that once; it was a disaster.
(For you new players: I'm not kidding. It actually happened.)
What a crazy few days that was.
Imagine getting so many pm's on your screen that it made trading nuts.
I just want to say again, please make the method of getting power 9 so that everyone can get it, casual players too. Going back to basics on what made mtg what it is today isnt a bad way. = Booster packs
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 1:12PM
#76
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2004
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So what is the downside to doing it ME5 style and having them as mythics? I see absolutely no downside to this at all and it gives everyone an equal chance to open them AND we can draft them.
Now, Heath, please don't make me go trolling through the interweb to find posts *by you* which I'm sure I'll find, complaing about the number of reprints in Master's Editions. 
The problem with MED5 is there are 9 good cards left to print and 800 pieces of crap (sorry, Virtue's Ruin and so on). So MED5 is either full of reprints or full of crap. And in order to make the set draftable, the reprints would also have to be crap.
So MED5 would essentially be the P9 and draftable crap, or P9 and undraftable crap... or it'll be rainbows and lolipops and WoTC will reprint every Vintage playable over $10 and the drafting will be crap.
Two of these things are very unappealing to customers and one of them is a pipe dream for people like me who will give up a whole draft for a $8 rare.
So I'm not against MED5 per say, I just don't see how they can make it good or that anyone here can expect it to be what they want.
I mean, I guess they could just put 10 duals again like they did with MED4. I'm not sure how many times WoTC can milk that cow, but maybe they can - there seems to be no upper limit to the appetite for duals. Then Ted Knudson might cry though.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 1:46PM
#77
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2007
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So what is the downside to doing it ME5 style and having them as mythics? I see absolutely no downside to this at all and it gives everyone an equal chance to open them AND we can draft them.
Now, Heath, please don't make me go trolling through the interweb to find posts *by you* which I'm sure I'll find, complaing about the number of reprints in Master's Editions. 
The problem with MED5 is there are 9 good cards left to print and 800 pieces of crap (sorry, Virtue's Ruin and so on). So MED5 is either full of reprints or full of crap. And in order to make the set draftable, the reprints would also have to be crap.
So MED5 would essentially be the P9 and draftable crap, or P9 and undraftable crap... or it'll be rainbows and lolipops and WoTC will reprint every Vintage playable over $10 and the drafting will be crap.
Two of these things are very unappealing to customers and one of them is a pipe dream for people like me who will give up a whole draft for a $8 rare.
So I'm not against MED5 per say, I just don't see how they can make it good or that anyone here can expect it to be what they want.
I mean, I guess they could just put 10 duals again like they did with MED4. I'm not sure how many times WoTC can milk that cow, but maybe they can - there seems to be no upper limit to the appetite for duals. Then Ted Knudson might cry though.
What if instead of Me5 it was like cube? With lots of good playable cards to be drafted and or coveted? *shrugs* Not sure if P9 is even desirable to have in a draft format since those cards really accelerate the level of the game. But that seems to beat the fill it with crap and p9 money grab idea.
Winter.Wolf
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 1:56PM
#78
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- Volunteer Community Lead
- blame me for the weather
Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2002
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Not sure if P9 is even desirable to have in a draft format since those cards really accelerate the level of the game.
I think only three of them (Lotus, Recall and Time Walk) are truly unfair in limited. But so is Pack Rat, so I think the risk is acceptable.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 1:57PM
#79
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2007
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Now, Heath, please don't make me go trolling through the interweb to find posts *by you* which I'm sure I'll find, complaing about the number of reprints in Master's Editions. 
The problem with MED5 is there are 9 good cards left to print and 800 pieces of crap (sorry, Virtue's Ruin and so on). So MED5 is either full of reprints or full of crap. And in order to make the set draftable, the reprints would also have to be crap.
So MED5 would essentially be the P9 and draftable crap, or P9 and undraftable crap... or it'll be rainbows and lolipops and WoTC will reprint every Vintage playable over $10 and the drafting will be crap.
Two of these things are very unappealing to customers and one of them is a pipe dream for people like me who will give up a whole draft for a $8 rare.
So I'm not against MED5 per say, I just don't see how they can make it good or that anyone here can expect it to be what they want.
I mean, I guess they could just put 10 duals again like they did with MED4. I'm not sure how many times WoTC can milk that cow, but maybe they can - there seems to be no upper limit to the appetite for duals. Then Ted Knudson might cry though.
I am curious if the current ME products already cover all the cards made and printed prior to Mirage and other promotional only cards and sets such as the portal sets? I doubt they would so there is probably cards out there that could be released in it.
I would also guess that reprinting cards isn't the problem, but more so reprinting the chase cards. So you could see the $3 (arbitrary low dollar amount, could argue a different price point) and below cards be up for grabs in a new ME set but don't put in the more expensive cards that are in previous MEs. That way those other cards would still hold value and the sets would still be clamored for.
Though if the power 9 were put into the set at mythic I do not think they would have to put too much more value cards into the set to make it popular for people looking for value drafting / packs. Then they could focus on making a fun draft environment for the set along with releasing other cards that they had not released yet.
For me, if it had the power 9, a few value commons and uncommons (like Chain Lightning in one of the sets), and then a good drafting environment that would be enough. If its good enough for me then I would assume it would be good enough for a lot of people. Especially people a lot more interested in having power 9 than I am. I'm slightly interested in having power 9 though I don't play any formats they are in. While I know there are many others who are interested in them for either the formats they want to play or just the lore of having one.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 2:01PM
#80
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2007
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Not sure if P9 is even desirable to have in a draft format since those cards really accelerate the level of the game.
I think only three of them (Lotus, Recall and Time Walk) are truly unfair in limited. But so is Pack Rat, so I think the risk is acceptable.
I think their real power is in constructed. Should not be too hard to balance out a limited format with them. Just like the dual lands.
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