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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 3:19AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2007
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So basically almost no changes were made just an official statement that says splitting in finals is legal... STILL. Just don't mention conceding or you'll get another 30 day ban or worse perma banned!
I'm just glad I won't get banned again for saying I would prefer the QP. Still doesn't make me feel comfotable knowing someone at WOTC has thier finger ready to lay a ban hammer down on my account for a second time.
0
This is EXACTLY what just happened. literally nothing was done. We all knew we could split as this describes the problem is the qp doesnt work within the system you(WOTC) are presenting. We have waited months only to be told what we already knew? That we can split, qps are indeed prizes BUT we cant do a concession discussion, so we cant really discuss qps...This seems ludicrous to me.
By saying "ONLY THE TOTAL PRIZES ALLOTTED for first and second place (including Qualifier Points)" it seems as clear and open as WotC could be about this issue.
This announcement is exactly what I was hoping for (short of some sample wording that we could use).
I plan to offer splitting finals again (after not doing so lately)... assuming I can make it to the finals!
Can only get qps with the win, and cant negotiate who gets the win... so dont celebrate just yet
Owner of TheCardNexus chain on mtgo.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 5:34AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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Well, I read their announcement as, can't negotiate who wins, and can't get qps without the win, BUT CAN negotiate QPs - as they are part of the prize for 1st and 2nd place.
So unless I'm reading this wrong, I think it neatly gets around the key issue.
Especially as I don't tend to need the QPs, so now I can say as such without fear.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 6:51AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2009
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Here are my comments/questions...
1: in 4-3-2-2 queues you can no longer say "Winner gives the loser 2 tickets so we both get our next draft free" - I would only ever agree to this if I wanted the QP and the guy offered to scoop so it is not a big deal to me, but it seems to be an innocent way of getting around the uneven split problem.
2: It appears that all QPs are "up for grabs" does this mean that in the future when splitting is put into the system (as promised) we will be able to end a DE saying something along the lines of "Man I really need those QP... how about I get all 11 QP and 10 packs, you take the other 40 packs?"
I collect Zendikar Foil Basic lands. Trade me yours!
Things that I want to see changed on MTGO:
1: 64 man drafts added to rotation of Events.
2: Friday night Classic/Better event times for Classic.
3: Visual/Audible Notification of disconnect, deckbuild/afk time expiring and round starts.
4: Prize Payouts as close to draft sets as possible.
5: Rotate Classic draft queues monthly!
6: MOCS level events for Classic/Pauper
7: Power 9!
8: Award Promo Cards for Constructed PEs (esp for Legacy/Classic)
9: Program Split option back in!
10: Set Favorite version in deck editor (i.e. always use x swamp)
11: Better sorting of gold cards in deck editor.
12: Bring leagues Back!
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 7:05AM
#14
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Why is it, over 2 years after we were promised funtionality to split in the finals that we still don't have it? Oh, right, I forgot who was coding it.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 10:14AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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1: in 4-3-2-2 queues you can no longer say "Winner gives the loser 2 tickets so we both get our next draft free" - I would only ever agree to this if I wanted the QP and the guy offered to scoop so it is not a big deal to me, but it seems to be an innocent way of getting around the uneven split problem
So, you were never able to say this and if it was reported it would result in instant action against your account. Offering prizes from outside of the event is a cut-and-dried example of bribery and is not allowed in any way, shape, or form.
In addition, asking for or offering a concession in return for anything is also a clear example of bribery and is actionable. You can concede your match at any time and you can ask your opponent to concede at any time, but if there is any discussion of exchanging anything in return for the concession you have crossed the line. In addition, as we have pointed out several times, since it is not implemented in the client we do not currently support prize sharing in any way. I don't know how much clearer we can be about that. Just like trades that are made outside of the system, our best advice is don't do it. At no point will we provide specific information about how to do something we don't recommend doing. Since players will try to do it on their own, however, we wanted to clarify what will get them into trouble. This clarification was made in conjunction the paper tournament team and our conduct team and is specific to Magic Online. I hope that clears up any lingering questions. Have fun.
Chris
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 10:31AM
#16
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- St Z, Patron Saint of the 99 Post Club aka Th
Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2004
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It was fatguypoolshark who said this, not killer owen. sorry for the confusion.
Can only get qps with the win, and cant negotiate who gets the win... so dont celebrate just yet
The announcement said the two players can determine what each place (1st and 2nd) would get and which prizes each player would prefer. That seems to cover negotiating the win.
And remember, once a split has been agreed to, asking for a concession is no longer prohibited providing you're not asking anything in exchange for it.
Example:
A: "So, want to split?"
B: "Yeah. I'd prefer X, are you happy with Y?"
A: "Deal."
A: "So, you gonna concede?"
At least that's how I'm seeing it. It doesn't violate anything WotcK has said so far. I think we got more than we realized at first glance, possibly.
I can't spare a moment for the dog faced boy
I won't lend another hand to the worm girl of Hanoi
Don't deplete my oxygen for the guy who's turning blue
But ask me, and I'll do anything for you
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 11:09AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2007
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1: in 4-3-2-2 queues you can no longer say "Winner gives the loser 2 tickets so we both get our next draft free" - I would only ever agree to this if I wanted the QP and the guy offered to scoop so it is not a big deal to me, but it seems to be an innocent way of getting around the uneven split problem
So, you were never able to say this and if it was reported it would result in instant action against your account. Offering prizes from outside of the event is a cut-and-dried example of bribery and is not allowed in any way, shape, or form.
In addition, asking for or offering a concession in return for anything is also a clear example of bribery and is actionable. You can concede your match at any time and you can ask your opponent to concede at any time, but if there is any discussion of exchanging anything in return for the concession you have crossed the line.
In addition, as we have pointed out several times, since it is not implemented in the client we do not currently support prize sharing in any way. I don't know how much clearer we can be about that. Just like trades that are made outside of the system, our best advice is don't do it. At no point will we provide specific information about how to do something we don't recommend doing.
Since players will try to do it on their own, however, we wanted to clarify what will get them into trouble. This clarification was made in conjunction the paper tournament team and our conduct team and is specific to Magic Online.
I hope that clears up any lingering questions. Have fun.
Chris
It was fatguypoolshark who said this, not killer owen. sorry for the confusion.
Can only get qps with the win, and cant negotiate who gets the win... so dont celebrate just yet
The announcement said the two players can determine what each place (1st and 2nd) would get and which prizes each player would prefer. That seems to cover negotiating the win.
And remember, once a split has been agreed to, asking for a concession is no longer prohibited providing you're not asking anything in exchange for it.
Example:
A: "So, want to split?"
B: "Yeah. I'd prefer X, are you happy with Y?"
A: "Deal."
A: "So, you gonna concede?"
At least that's how I'm seeing it. It doesn't violate anything WotcK has said so far. I think we got more than we realized at first glance, possibly.
If this is indeed the correct interpretation(i dont think it is) then we need it worded clearer. Also WOTC_K your position makes more sense however we need a little more clarification. What is the point in treating qps just like packs if the only way to get qps is a concession which unless our understanding is wrong is bribery.
Owner of TheCardNexus chain on mtgo.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 12:17PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2006
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1: in 4-3-2-2 queues you can no longer say "Winner gives the loser 2 tickets so we both get our next draft free" - I would only ever agree to this if I wanted the QP and the guy offered to scoop so it is not a big deal to me, but it seems to be an innocent way of getting around the uneven split problem
Since players will try to do it on their own, however, we wanted to clarify what will get them into trouble. This clarification was made in conjunction the paper tournament team and our conduct team and is specific to Magic Online.
So will this mean that in paper if a player asks to get scooped into t8 it will be illegal now, and that the palyer asking will get banned from the DCI for a set amount of time? If not then what was the point in bringing the paper tournament team onbaord. We all know MTGO gets less love than paper Magic, but I think the splits need to be the same. It seems silly to be able to ask for concessions in paper but not on MTGO. Perhaps WOTC just doesn't want to take the time to actually solve this problem. It took them about 3 months to give us the information we have now, and if you ask me that is really really sad and pathetic. Sure you have to go through legal issues, but basically 3 months for almost no change at all is really poor cordination.
Love to play in PRE's? Click Here to learn more about Clan Yawgmoth's new event! Build Your Own Standard!
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 12:19PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2006
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It was fatguypoolshark who said this, not killer owen. sorry for the confusion.
Can only get qps with the win, and cant negotiate who gets the win... so dont celebrate just yet
A: "So, you gonna concede?"
I'm pretty sure this is considered bribery and you will be banned. In my case I asked the player if they wanted to split, but I would prefer the QP. I got banned for basically asking my opponent to concede. I agree that WOTC needs to make it clear how to go about the QP issue.
Love to play in PRE's? Click Here to learn more about Clan Yawgmoth's new event! Build Your Own Standard!
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2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2010 - 12:35PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2006
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1: in 4-3-2-2 queues you can no longer say "Winner gives the loser 2 tickets so we both get our next draft free" - I would only ever agree to this if I wanted the QP and the guy offered to scoop so it is not a big deal to me, but it seems to be an innocent way of getting around the uneven split problem
Since players will try to do it on their own, however, we wanted to clarify what will get them into trouble. This clarification was made in conjunction the paper tournament team and our conduct team and is specific to Magic Online.
So will this mean that in paper if a player asks to get scooped into t8 it will be illegal now, and that the palyer asking will get banned from the DCI for a set amount of time? If not then what was the point in bringing the paper tournament team onbaord. We all know MTGO gets less love than paper Magic, but I think the splits need to be the same. It seems silly to be able to ask for concessions in paper but not on MTGO. Perhaps WOTC just doesn't want to take the time to actually solve this problem. It took them about 3 months to give us the information we have now, and if you ask me that is really really sad and pathetic. Sure you have to go through legal issues, but basically 3 months for almost no change at all is really poor cordination.
Actually...It took MTGO roughly 3-4 weeks to come up with what you see now. The next quick alternative would be taking even more functionality away from players, ala the classifieds route.
I always thought asking to get scooped into a Top 8 was shady. You are always going to be kicking another player out of the Top 8 by scooping one in. That is tournament collusion in my book since you are messing with pairings including your future matches for the next three rounds.
It is vain to look for a defense against lightning. - Publius Syrus (42 B.C.)
How can two people split a point that has no value?
“You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.” -Albert Einstein
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