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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 5:23PM
#1
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apologies in advance for the minor wall of text.
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere... but is "splitting" the prizes in an 8-4 draft illegal in MTGO? For those who don't remember the topsy-turvy world that was MTGOv2... You used to be able to intentionally draw matches in MTGO. Former Limited Information author and magic-pro Quentin Martin said to me that he always preferred to ID the finals of an 8-4 draft, because it meant that he could take 6 packs and draft again straight away.
In an 8-4, you only need to win two before you can intentionally draw the finals and receive six boosters.
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...
Bear in mind that this was before the days of MOCS q-points. In the current MTGO client (v3), there is no option to draw a game with your opponent.
Playing 8-4 drafts I have on multiple occasions been approached to "split" the prizes. THis is a relatively straightforward process - Player A concedes the match; player B trades 2 boosters of the appropriate type(s) to player A, and everyone is happy. Suppose that, who gets to be "A" and who gets to be "B" is determined by who wins the dieroll to play first. However, someone alerted me to the fact that this behaviour may be a breach of the MTGO code of conduct.
13. Do not attempt to artificially alter the outcome of a Magic Online league, sanctioned event, or game. This includes, but is not limited to:
Bribing or offering any compensation in order to change the outcome of a match.
I can see exactly where that person is coming from.
SO... Is it a breach of the CoC to "split" in v3? If "yes", is it a breach of the CoC if someone even approaches you asking to split? (or does it only become a breach once you actually concede and trade the packs) Or... if "no" Is it "technically" a breach, but something which WoTC turn "a blind eye" to?
Does it become a breach if someone agrees to split with you "but only if they get the QP"?
setting aside the common sense approach (splitting prizes is something which happens regularly all over the place in real life and there is no real reason why it shouldn't be allowed online) - does anyone know the official line on this?
And here's a related but stickier question.
Suppose (at some point in the future) M11 packs are 4.25 tickets from bots. However, a 2-man standard queue costs 2 tickets per person to enter and awards a single M11 booster.
So... I give my "friend" 2 tickets, and he concedes the match to me, allowing me to effectively get a booster for 4 tickets - cheaper than what it might cost otherwise from the tradebots.
(Yes, I know you can buy boosters in the store for $3.99, but let's ignore that for the moment and assume that for some reason I want to be able to convert MTGO tickets into MTGO boosters.)
Is this a breach of the CoC?
If this IS a breach but splitting an 8-4 prize is not, then what's the difference between the two scenarios?
Both involve one player conceding the match transferring prizes to a particular player.
appreciate your thoughts/responses.
cheers
DT
M:tG Rules Adviser
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 5:31PM
#2
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Not legal. This thread has about 8 pages of reading for you.
This space intentionally left blank.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 5:42PM
#3
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- St Z, Patron Saint of the 99 Post Club aka Th
Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2004
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This is purely my understanding of how this legally works.... I could be wrong...
It is permissible to agree to a split, but there can be no discussion of which player concedes.
With regards to MOCS, players could agree to split and play out the match, splitting boosters at the end.
I can't spare a moment for the dog faced boy
I won't lend another hand to the worm girl of Hanoi
Don't deplete my oxygen for the guy who's turning blue
But ask me, and I'll do anything for you
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 5:56PM
#4
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Thanks for the link major_havoc. Unfortunately it sounds like that player was banned because he wanted the QP and mentioned that in his conversation. However I'm still confused as there appears to have been some official communication from WoTC that splitting itself is fine; it is the MOCS points which were the reason for that case being deemed illegal (which answers one of my questions...) From community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
WotC_MattT's exact words, taken from the post I linked above (second-to-last paragraph):
And stop confusing cheating for prize splitting in the finals. We're fine with prize splits in the finals, but understand that until we get a system into place to do it through the system, you enter these agreements at your own risk. Sorry about that.
Until that post I was never splitting (as I do not want to even slightly endanger myself). But this quote from an official WotC representative (We're fine with prize splits in the finals) clearly states that splitting in finals is legal and therefore nobody should be penalized for that.
So I am now totally confused.
Edit: By the way, I want to thank Ambitious for originally pointing out Matt's statement to me.
I also note the references in the major_havoc's linked thread to Wizards' intention to reintroduce prize splitting as a feature in MTGOv3.
If "things have changed" - would love some sort of official response.
M:tG Rules Adviser
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 6:00PM
#5
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This is purely my understanding of how this legally works.... I could be wrong...
It is permissible to agree to a split, but there can be no discussion of which player concedes.
With regards to MOCS, players could agree to split and play out the match, splitting boosters at the end.
SO then... would the following be legal?
Before the match
Player A: "Wanna split?"
Player B: "Sure, but we still have to play for the QP."
Player A (figuring that he will not get enough QP to qualify for MOCS): "sure, no problem!"
Match starts
player A concedes 2 seconds in to the match. Player B trades 2 boosters to player A.
M:tG Rules Adviser
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 6:20PM
#6
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it still seems to be a grey area either way. Personally if you think its worth the risk go for it. I highly doubt wizards will give a definite decision from people who matter until they finalize whatever the change in paper is that they mentioned in the linked thread. But thats just my personal opinion.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 6:35PM
#7
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- St Z, Patron Saint of the 99 Post Club aka Th
Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2004
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This is purely my understanding of how this legally works.... I could be wrong...
It is permissible to agree to a split, but there can be no discussion of which player concedes.
With regards to MOCS, players could agree to split and play out the match, splitting boosters at the end.
SO then... would the following be legal?
Before the match
Player A: "Wanna split?"
Player B: "Sure, but we still have to play for the QP."
Player A (figuring that he will not get enough QP to qualify for MOCS): "sure, no problem!"
Match starts
player A concedes 2 seconds in to the match. Player B trades 2 boosters to player A.
In my opinion that's legal.
I think this would be legal too..
Player A: "I don't care about the MOCS points, wanna split?"
Player B: "Sure."
Player A concedes. Player B gives boosters to A.
And this...
Player A: "Wanna split?"
Player B: "I'll split. I was hoping to get the MOCS points, though.
Player A: "No problem."
Player A concedes. Player B gives boosters to A.
In both cases, there was no discussion about who would concede and no explicit request or offer of compensation for conceding. But, you know, this is just my opinion. We're waiting on a definitive statement from WotC.
If it were totally up to me, players in the final match of an event could do whatever they wanted, as long as one player wasn't harassing another.
I can't spare a moment for the dog faced boy
I won't lend another hand to the worm girl of Hanoi
Don't deplete my oxygen for the guy who's turning blue
But ask me, and I'll do anything for you
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 7:05PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2009
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yeah I basically always want to split the prizes and always want the QP... so I tell my opponent... "Want to split the prizes? I only really care about the QP." I figure if they don't care about the QP they may just agree to split then concede. If not we just play it out  In fact I always prefered to play it out instead of having someone concede... Yes it saves time... but I like actually getting the win the draft
I collect Zendikar Foil Basic lands. Trade me yours!
Things that I want to see changed on MTGO:
1: 64 man drafts added to rotation of Events.
2: Friday night Classic/Better event times for Classic.
3: Visual/Audible Notification of disconnect, deckbuild/afk time expiring and round starts.
4: Prize Payouts as close to draft sets as possible.
5: Rotate Classic draft queues monthly!
6: MOCS level events for Classic/Pauper
7: Power 9!
8: Award Promo Cards for Constructed PEs (esp for Legacy/Classic)
9: Program Split option back in!
10: Set Favorite version in deck editor (i.e. always use x swamp)
11: Better sorting of gold cards in deck editor.
12: Bring leagues Back!
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 8:07PM
#9
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This is purely my understanding of how this legally works.... I could be wrong...
It is permissible to agree to a split, but there can be no discussion of which player concedes.
With regards to MOCS, players could agree to split and play out the match, splitting boosters at the end.
SO then... would the following be legal?
Before the match
Player A: "Wanna split?"
Player B: "Sure, but we still have to play for the QP."
Player A (figuring that he will not get enough QP to qualify for MOCS): "sure, no problem!"
Match starts
player A concedes 2 seconds in to the match. Player B trades 2 boosters to player A.
This is the conclusion I came to at the end of that thread as well.
Xtofyr's two examples are cutting it a little close, IMO.
Personally, I think it's OK (And that this whole rigmarole is ridiculous), but I could potentially see the wording presented in Xtofyr's examples being bad in Wizards eyes....of course, no one gave us any type of confirmation on this so we're totally in the dark about it. Depends on how much of a risk you want to take (though it's probably an extremely small risk) when you decide how to word it.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 1:22AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2006
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I like splitting , Most of it since i have little time to play Drafts , and splitting give me Extra time
problem is what happens when you agree to split and then the other person will not give you the boosters (assuming you conceded )
I think sending a letter to the Wotc about it could end up in banning your account.
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