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Lowering Force of Will's Price Through Increasing Supply.
2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 10:48AM #161
theclonedone
Date Joined: Jan 23, 2009
Posts: 343
Legacy is growing at a alarming rate, 2-3 years ago duals- in paper-were 3 times less then they are today. The same thing is likely to happen online when the Legacy crowd comes and all the players that didn't play the format start to take interest. GP Madrid was record breaking, WotC and SCG have invested in the format's surge and will continue to drive it. It stands to reason that prices will not descend, I counted 5 cards in the GP Madrid top 8 not online-testing anyone?


Jun 19, 2010 -- 10:50PM, JaketheLate wrote:


have you ever SEEN Yoked Plowbeast!?  It's totally BROKEN!!!11ONEONEONE  It has five power AND it cycles!!111ELEVEN  You can either get rid of it early, or play it lategame for a serious ****ing beatdown; it's ****ING NUTS!!111ELEVENONEONEONE
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 10:52AM #162
quadibloc
Date Joined: Aug 20, 2008
Posts: 3,930

Mar 3, 2010 -- 6:49AM, dangerlinto wrote:

Mar 3, 2010 -- 6:33AM, DonTheMage wrote:

Now, let's be honest.  If WotC put out a set of From The Vaults: Reserved List and reprinted every card in foil for $100, they would sell 10,000 copies easily.  That's a million dollars in sales right there.  However, what would that million dollars in short term sales cost them long-term?


I don't know - what *would* it cost them?

Seriously, do you thikn people would stop buying new product from WoTC because they did that?  Honestly, I don't think so.


This is an important question, but I think that one important factor sometimes gets missed in the argument.

If Wizards reprinted the Power Nine, sure I'd rush over to wherever I could to buy some. And after doing that, clearly I wouldn't then suddenly stop playing Magic - if people did suddenly lose all interest in playing Magic, then even the P9 would become worthless.

So what's the problem?

As it happens, though, some dealers - the good ones - form part of the secondary market. They stock copies of cards like Force of Will , and, yes, maybe even cards from the P9. Imagine how they would feel when the value of those cards crashed through the floor.

Now then: how much would it cost Wizards on future sales if you could only get boosters at places like Wal-Mart and Target, and there were no longer any gaming stores that hosted FNM or other local events?

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:09AM #163
Calavera777
Date Joined: Mar 11, 2009
Posts: 1,472

Mar 3, 2010 -- 10:48AM, theclonedone wrote:

Legacy is growing at a alarming rate, 2-3 years ago duals- in paper-were 3 times less then they are today. The same thing is likely to happen online when the Legacy crowd comes and all the players that didn't play the format start to take interest. GP Madrid was record breaking, WotC and SCG have invested in the format's surge and will continue to drive it. It stands to reason that prices will not descend, I counted 5 cards in the GP Madrid top 8 not online-testing anyone?





Luckily the Reserve list doens't apply to MTGO. And I believe not even the "online reprint policy" of 1% per year does not apply to Classic Set releases such as MEDs.... so there is no worry of MTGO not having enough cards for everyone to participate n Legacy who wants to

I collect Zendikar Foil Basic lands. Trade me yours!
Things that I want to see changed on MTGO:
1: 64 man drafts added to rotation of Events.
2: Friday night Classic/Better event times for Classic.
3: Visual/Audible Notification of disconnect, deckbuild/afk time expiring and round starts.
4: Prize Payouts as close to draft sets as possible.
5: Rotate Classic draft queues monthly!
6: MOCS level events for Classic/Pauper
7: Power 9!
8: Award Promo Cards for Constructed PEs (esp for Legacy/Classic)
9: Program Split option back in!
10: Set Favorite version in deck editor (i.e. always use x swamp)
11: Better sorting of gold cards in deck editor.
12: Bring leagues Back!
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:23AM #164
natedawg
  • Regulators!
Date Joined: Nov 29, 2003
Posts: 4,998

Mar 3, 2010 -- 10:41AM, nushae wrote:

Mar 3, 2010 -- 10:34AM, natedawg wrote:

Well, if it's indeed a sign of the apocalypse, then they should go ahead and freak.  But it's not a bulwark holding back the apocalypse as some people think.




I'm just saying, if the first sign of possible apocalypse is changing the RL, even though that doesn't mean apocalypse is a sure thing, you would be a fool to ignore such a sign. You're basically saying that the sign itself is a reason to ignore it. If wizards wanted to do something risky that the RL prevented them from doing, they could simply remove/change the RL, sure. The point is that as long as they don't remove/change it, we KNOW we're safe from (at least those) mistakes.




I guess the way I would describe my opinion is that if they're going do something really dumb, they're going to do it all at once.  The same announcement of Chronicles 2 would contain the removal of the RL.

The removal of the RL would now allow them to decide reprints on a case-by-case basis.

Or another way to look at it - the existence or lack of the RL in 2010 holds zero predictive power for the apocalypse occurring in 2011.

4. Don't speak dumb, or you'll be struck dumb.

Remember, the name of the game is heads I win, tails you lose.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:43AM #165
DonTheMage
  • with a lance and a windmill to tilt
Date Joined: Jan 27, 2002
Posts: 550
The second sign of the impending apocalypse is Nushae and I agreeing.

Start gathering canned foods and bottled water.  ;-)
A failure to plan, is a plan to fail.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:59AM #166
quadibloc
Date Joined: Aug 20, 2008
Posts: 3,930

Mar 3, 2010 -- 7:25AM, bastardx wrote:

Well Don and co. you can argue all day but thankfully Wotc is going to change policy and use the good old common sense. As for some of you arguing the future big spenders get hurt... Well that totally explains one of the biggest dealers on the planet being in favour of it right?


Although this is an MTGO forum, it seems that here we're talking about the Reserved List and physical cards.

Yes, getting rid of the Reserved List is a good idea, because most of the cards it prevents from being reprinted would go up, not down, in value if they could be reprinted. A few of those cards might even be worthwhile to have available.

But that's different from Wizards not only getting rid of the Reserved List, but also not using common sense in what they reprint. That would be bad; bad for the game, because those cards were too powerful, and bad for Wizards - because that could lead to them losing the good part of their dealer network.

I do think that the absence of the P9 does leave a void in Magic, though, of sorts. Time Spiral included "fixed" versions of many old, powerful cards that had higher costs or other drawbacks. But a fixed card is a different card that does different things.  What I'd like to see is some scheme where something like Cascade makes it a possible, but very rare, event for a card to behave exactly like one of those old, overpowered cards - and I've suggested various elaborate (and, hence, impractical) schemes by which that could be done.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 12:06PM #167
nushae
Date Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: 3,302

Mar 3, 2010 -- 11:43AM, DonTheMage wrote:

The second sign of the impending apocalypse is Nushae and I agreeing.

Start gathering canned foods and bottled water.  ;-)




It happens now and then. I guess it balances out with ppl winning the lottery.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 12:23PM #168
DonTheMage
  • with a lance and a windmill to tilt
Date Joined: Jan 27, 2002
Posts: 550
You know, I have a Pick-6 ticket from last week in the dashboard of my truck that I need to check ...

Later,

Don!
A failure to plan, is a plan to fail.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 2:49PM #169
TheGoldenVoid
  • Proud Papa
Date Joined: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 1,134

Mar 3, 2010 -- 10:26AM, natedawg wrote:

Well, if you are going to have a debate about FoW availability online, it's only permitted to discuss the scenario of when Legacy is brought online sometime this year.  Right now FoW demand = Classic Players Demand.  Once Legacy occurs, FoW demand = CPD + Legacy PD.  I'm sure that initially CPD will drop at least a little, but the new LPD will be much much larger than the current CPD.

Legacy is currently the second most popular constructed format in paper.  The bum rush of demand increase once it becomes online will be very large (the initial surge might be slightly damped due to still missing cards from Urza's Destiny and Masques) and a few hundred FoW will disappear very rapidly.  So unless there's several thousand copies out that people are waiting for Legacy to sell them, there won't be enough liquid copies to supply the format.




Then the early uptakers are rewarded with lower prices. That's how constructed Magic has worked (and done rather well working that way) for 15 years. Personally I am waiting for Legacy like many others, but I started my pre-IPA collection the day that Classic came into being. Go me.

Any sensible player serious about online Legacy would be in there NOW, buying duals at the very least, since they are dirt cheap compared to paper.

Thing is, even with key staple reprints online (duals, FoW for example), this imminent rise in Legacy demand online that we are led to believe will happen this year, will probably mean the current prices remain intact anyway (assuming they don't actuaslly rise). So holding out for a reprint in the hope it lowers current prices of staples seems unrealistic to me.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 2:54PM #170
Dionysus64
Date Joined: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 64

The removal of the RL would now allow them to decide reprints on a case-by-case basis.



You clearly don't feel all the cards should be reprinted.
What card, or cards, specifically, do you feel WotC should reprint but cannot due to the RL?  In what way are the cards you select unique or why is it not feasible to make a different version of the same card? 
I'm thinking your earlier example was crappy because Don rightly pointed out that it could be reprinted as a 2/3 without harming the RL or the game.

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