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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 9:15AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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I don't think I've ever seen this subject brought up which leads me to believe people are okay with this policy - which I can't believe because it seems ridiculous to me.
Despite being on MTGO for two and a half years I didn't even know about this until yesterday, probably because 98% of my tournaments have been single elimination drafts. So for anyone else that doesn't know: If you timeout during a match, you are dropped from the whole tournament.
I found out about this after my internet went down right before the second round of a standard daily event. I wasn't able to get back on until about an hour later - right after the third round had started. I expected to be 1-1 at that point, still able to compete for prizes. Instead I found I had been dropped.
I submitted a compensation request and it was granted on a "one time exemption" because I am a "customer in good standing". It was pointed out that if you time out you are considered to have "abandoned" the event and you are dropped. I thank WOTC for the compensation but this seems like a terrible policy to me.
In fact have to ask what the point of this policy is. Is it a timing issue? If so it makes no sense. No round in a swiss tourney is ever going to take less than 10 minutes, so I don't see how a disconnected player could be holding up an event.
So what does everyone else think? Internet problems happen. I don't think you should be kicked out of the tournament because you lose your connection for 15 minutes. Or at the absolute very least, you shouldn't be dropped if it is still mathematically possible for you to win prizes.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 9:28AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2009
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Funny I remember playing in one of those 6 round straight swiss events and losing my internet connection and not coming back till tthe next day, thinking I had been dropped after the first timeout. And coming back to find out I lost 6 straight rounds and destroyed my rating (not like it matters for anything, but I liked to keep track).
I'd just like to know the policy and have it be consistent.
I collect Zendikar Foil Basic lands. Trade me yours!
Things that I want to see changed on MTGO:
1: 64 man drafts added to rotation of Events.
2: Friday night Classic/Better event times for Classic.
3: Visual/Audible Notification of disconnect, deckbuild/afk time expiring and round starts.
4: Prize Payouts as close to draft sets as possible.
5: Rotate Classic draft queues monthly!
6: MOCS level events for Classic/Pauper
7: Power 9!
8: Award Promo Cards for Constructed PEs (esp for Legacy/Classic)
9: Program Split option back in!
10: Set Favorite version in deck editor (i.e. always use x swamp)
11: Better sorting of gold cards in deck editor.
12: Bring leagues Back!
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 10:31AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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I think the reason for it is that if you're not there for a round, it's pretty boring for your opponent, and a free win.
The idea of a 4 round event is that you can play in all 4 rounds. If your opponent doesn't show up, you get a win, but you don't get to play. It can be disappointing.
Especially considering that most of the players who would be playing against those with loses also have losses themselves and are likely only playing for fun/practice at that point anyways, it gets even worse.
I'm out of contention, but I need the practice, so I wait for the round to end, and my next round opponent doesn't show up, so I don't even get to play.
I remember a tournament I played in once (I think it was coldsnap sealed or something like that), I did terribly and lost the first two rounds, so I knew that I needed the practice and decided to stick out the tournament. In round 3 I got a bye, and my round 4 and 5 opponents both timed out. It was a disappointing event to say the least.
DCI Certified Level 1 Judge
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 10:38AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2008
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I agree with BatDwarf...by keeping you in the tournament by automatically ceding losses, you're basically cheating someone else out a playing experience. Although your situation was no fault of your own, I can't see WotC changing the game to where they sacrifice someone else's playing experience by keeping the opportunity open for you to return.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 10:58AM
#5
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It's basically there to minimize the number of times someone has to play an "AFK" opponent. Magic is obviously a lot more fun if your opponent is playing as well, so players who time out are considered to have abandoned the tournament and are automatically dropped to minimize the number of times this occurs.
The same applies to paper Magic tournaments as well: If you don't show up for a round, then after 10 minutes your opponent will be awarded the win and you will be dropped from the tournament.
Lee Sharpe
Data Analyst
Wizards of the Coast
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 11:00AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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I agree with BatDwarf...by keeping you in the tournament by automatically ceding losses, you're basically cheating someone else out a playing experience. Although your situation was no fault of your own, I can't see WotC changing the game to where they sacrifice someone else's playing experience by keeping the opportunity open for you to return.
Well, in this case I was cheated out of a playing experience. So really, either way someone will be. However getting one free win isn't nearly as bad as missing the entire rest of the tournament in my opinion.
But really I don't think it should matter - by paying the entry fee I should have the right to play all the rounds - even if I forfeit each time that is my own choice. If you're late for a round IRL you don't get dropped - you just get your game loss.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 11:02AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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The same applies to paper Magic tournaments as well: If you don't show up for a round, then after 10 minutes your opponent will be awarded the win and you will be dropped from the tournament.
Okay I wasn't aware of that one. However, you aren't relying on an internet connection IRL. I still maintain the entry fee earns me the right to play in every round.
Edit: Okay I looked up the paper rules regarding this and it turns out this isn't exactly the case:
A player receiving two Game Losses for Tardiness in the same round (or one Game Loss for single-game matches) is dropped from the tournament unless he or she reports to the Head Judge or Scorekeeper before the end of the round.
So in fact MTGO is harsher than paper.
Magic is obviously a lot more fun if your opponent is playing as well, so players who time out are considered to have abandoned the tournament and are automatically dropped to minimize the number of times this occurs.
So when does this logic start applying to people who play in multiple events at the same time? They sure make it a lot less fun for their opponents. And unlike people that get disconnected, it's entirely their own choice.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 11:21AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2003
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...
I still maintain the entry fee earns me the right to play in every round.
Incorrect. The entry only earns you the right to join the event.
What happens after you join is defined by the rules. In this case a time out = match concession.
This logic is also demonstrated by the compensation policy; if there is a problem then you are refunded the cost of entry and NOT prizes based on standing*.
*there are a few exceptions
Guess what? Chicken butt.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 4:03PM
#9
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"I still maintain the entry fee earns me the right to play in every round."
Interesting that someone else caught this phrase as well, as it stood out to me too.
You are 100% right auaiomrn1, that your fee allows you to play every round of the Swiss event... and that's where the sticky widget comes in. By not showing up to a round... any round... you've implicitly stepped away from your end of the "play every round" commitment. Granted, that may not be what someone intends to do if they miss the 10 minute mark, but it's what the tournament will do based on the rules.
However! You bring up a good point in that it's hard to tell that this is the case for the tournament. If I look up the details in the custhelp system for a Daily Event, it makes no mention of the time limit. It really should be there as fair warning of this policy, since it is a very important fact, and missing it really sucks if you're not prepared for the end result.
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2010 - 5:19PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2009
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How about not auto-dropping until the start of the next round. 10 minute time out and you get a match loss, but the drop shouldn't occur until the start of the next round. Sometimes if you gotta restart your PC, reset your router, etc, it can take longer than 10 minutes to get back. This gives you a bigger window to get back and it shouldn't affect any other players.
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