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2 years ago ::
Jan 15, 2010 - 4:09PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2007
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Hello, I am quite annoyed by the following situation, where I think what i did is probably not the best I should have done, but that what WotC's handling of the situation is even worse, please let me know what you guys think: - As PTQ's for San Juan are in extended, and it's usually my best format, I as often playtested the format quite a lot on modo, and the deck I prefered happen to have primal command in it. - During the 1st ptq I play in, I see that I am not able to use the mode "put a non land permanent on top + shuffle target players library" (I had played the card in many tournaments before, but mostly to gain 7 lifes vs burn/zoo, but oddly I never needed to do that). So I filled a refund, and obviously got it. - Before a ptq some days later, I ask an orc if primal command is still bugged. He told me he doesn't know, but that i should check in the list of known bugged cards. It wasn't listed there, so i figured I could play my deck again. (that's where I prolly made a mistake, I could have check all the forums and posts of the last few weeks, saw that there was no new build, so that nothing got fixed... but I'm just a user of a product provided by wotc, am I really supposed to do all this?). - As you probably guess by now (why would I made such a thread otherwise?  ), no, Primal Command is not bugged. Round 3 of my PTQ, turn 4, I'm at 1-1 so still in contention, and my opponent got a garruk. As you may know, not being able to remove the planeswalker (unless yoyu kill your opp ) isn't the best way to win a game of magic, and that's where I discovered I couldn't "destroy" it with primal command. A lil bit frustrated by not being able to really compete in a normal way in that PTQ, I felt it was more fair to drop right now and ask a refund, so I did it, rather than see the outcome of the game with a "corrupted" state, and ask a refund only if I lose. - I was told I would not be granted a refund because their policy says "
- Wizards of the Coast maintains a list of known client issues and known card issues.
- An issue’s presence on the Known Issues lists or other section of the Knowledge Base does not guarantee compensation.
- Wizards of the Coast reserves the right to limit compensation on a “one (1) reimbursement per issue per customer” basis. The customer is considered to be aware of the incident after their first compensation for a particular issue. Subsequent submissions for the same issue, error, or bug may be automatically denied. Wizards of the Coast reserves the right to review such issues on a case-by-case basis. "
I feel it really unfair, because i am really not the one supposed to take care of such a list, and can only try to play as good as possible based on informations they provide me, not on what I think might, maybe, be the case (even if as I said I should probably have supposed or found out nothing was fixed). While typing this, I received a new message from cust serv, saying "The list has not been updated recently, that is why it is not on there. Unfortunately we cannot email you when it is finally fixed", which really doesn't feel great either. Sorry for the probably way too long post, just tried to be accurate while descibing what happened, but feel free to think what you should about it Rémy/TuSaisPas .
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2 years ago ::
Jan 15, 2010 - 4:29PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2009
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Ok, so right now, I'm torn.
PTQ's on paper = the great unwashed, waking up @ 6am to drive hours, tons of money/time invested, and depending on where you live, probably an unwise travel.
PTQ's online = Zen block sealed, 150 card deck fiasco, bugged cards that you cant get compensation for when you've been testing the deck and are comfortable with it, more and more problems piling up.
My suggestion to wizards: Fix this issue with various cards. Vengeful Rebirth, Soul's Fire, Primal Command, anything that has this linked issue. This has been going on for almost a month now, and the response on this has been abysmal. What happens if your sealed pool has a souls fire/vengeful rebirth in it and you cant use them to win, are we supposed to just ignore that the card exists?
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2010 - 7:47AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2008
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My bad, I think I got compensated for the Glimervoid bug about a dozen times before they finally told me I was know aware of the issue. My fault that policy exists, sorry.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2010 - 12:47PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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The ORC was in the wrong by implying that this embarassingly out of date bug list was somehow current. There's a whole class of card bugs (including Soul's Fire) from some recent change that mucked up the ability to choose a player as a second target for a spell.
I think you should ask for a refund again, stating you are aware of the policy, and were aware of the bug from your previous refund, but that you were led to believe the bug had been fixed.
They might say it's your responsibility to check first in a casual game, but that's a bit weak in my opinion. If WotC wants to invoke the list of known bugs as part of their refund policy, then they better make sure that said list is kept current.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2010 - 6:50PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2003
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If it's a bug, and it effects your performance in a tournament then you SHOULD get compensation, regardless of whether or not you were previously aware of it.
WotC needs to either temporarily ban the card from tournaments if they don't want it played, or pay out compensation until it is fixed.
Placing the onus on the customer is just bad policy.
Guess what? Chicken butt.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 20, 2010 - 1:06PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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Agree, tempesteye. Right now I'm thinking how the current refund policy acts in strange corner-cases. What if there's a bug that only happens a very small fraction of the time, but when it does occur, it is disastrous? Even if you are "aware" of the problem, how would you know it's not fixed if the bug never occurs on that list.
Also, what happens if a bug only occurs in a very complex situation, and it is difficult to even understand or predict when it will occur? You get stung by the bug once, get your refund, and then you are "aware" of the bug. So, you change your deck to remove the complex situation. Turns out you understood it wrong, and the bug still occurs with your new deck, in a different situation. Will WotC insist that you were aware of the bug and deny compensation? You might say "but I was only aware that it occured when interacting with card X, and this is a new issue because it happened while interacting with card Y".
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2 years ago ::
Jan 21, 2010 - 10:25PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2009
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Odd that they wouldn't compensate you, they seem to give compensation for soul's fire as long as it gets in the way.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 23, 2010 - 10:23AM
#8
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If they can't be bothered to keep the list current, they need to pay out compensation if people check the list and try to play cards that aren't on it but SHOULD be.
I would keep filing for this refund and be totally unsatisfied until they either update their list of bugs OR gave the refund.
The way they handled it is a shady business practice.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 6:28AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2009
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Hello,
- Before a ptq some days later, I ask an orc if primal command is still bugged. He told me he doesn't know, but that i should check in the list of known bugged cards. It wasn't listed there, so i figured I could play my deck again. (that's where I prolly made a mistake, I could have check all the forums and posts of the last few weeks, saw that there was no new build, so that nothing got fixed... but I'm just a user of a product provided by wotc, am I really supposed to do all this?).
Yes, you were supposed.
You see, wotc's business model is one that don't care to much about custommers, so before
a big event it is every player's job to test all the cards of their deck for proper function,
ask orcs for know bugs and scan/post the forum.
I do feel bad for you, but if you don't struggle for yourself wotc will never do. They just care to take
your money.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 6:37AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jul 10, 2007
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If it's a bug, and it effects your performance in a tournament then you SHOULD get compensation, regardless of whether or not you were previously aware of it.
WotC needs to either temporarily ban the card from tournaments if they don't want it played, or pay out compensation until it is fixed.
Placing the onus on the customer is just bad policy.
100%
WotC I don't even play tourney's and I think this is the way it should be. The bugs need to be squashed not left to continue breeding.
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