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10 months ago ::
Jun 09, 2009 - 2:53PM
#1
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Reading through the Commander (and, by extension, the Elder Dragon Highlander rules) has one particular rule; "If your commander would be put into a graveyard from play, you may remove it from the game instead.".
Anyone fluent in rules-ese can recognize this as a replacement effect. Those also knowing basic English can also identify the definition of 'instead'. So, in my mind at least, the meaning here is clear.
However, after participating in or watching countless Commander games, especially ones involving that one commander, I encounter a lot of people who seem oblivious to this rule, especially due to the infamous Commander Bug that causes games to operate in contrast to the given rule.
After enough failed attempts, I'm now very, very curious as to where the major misconception lies. Obviously the bug should have been fixed ages ago, but it seems difficult to convince them there even is one.
What is your opinion on the subject?
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10 months ago ::
Jun 09, 2009 - 4:01PM
#2
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Reading through the Commander (and, by extension, the Elder Dragon Highlander rules) has one particular rule; "If your commander would be put into a graveyard from play, you may remove it from the game instead.".
Anyone fluent in rules-ese can recognize this as a replacement effect. Those also knowing basic English can also identify the definition of 'instead'. So, in my mind at least, the meaning here is clear.
However, after participating in or watching countless Commander games, especially ones involving that one commander, I encounter a lot of people who seem oblivious to this rule, especially due to the infamous Commander Bug that causes games to operate in contrast to the given rule.
After enough failed attempts, I'm now very, very curious as to where the major misconception lies. Obviously the bug should have been fixed ages ago, but it seems difficult to convince them there even is one.
What is your opinion on the subject?
The issue is twofold:
First, you have older, knowledgeable players, exploiting the bug.
Second, you have newer players who don't know that it is a bug.
Whenever I encounter someone using CoA I ask them specifically if they know that their Commander is bugged. If they claim not to I explain it to them.
Then I promptly beat the heck out of them regardless.
I think most players understand that it's a client bug but will continue to exploit anyway, until it is fixed.
"In my world, it's YOU who's the abnormal one."
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10 months ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 1:38PM
#3
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exploiting bugs is the fastest way to get them fixed. if commander was a tournament format it would have been fixed a long time ago.
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10 months ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 1:52PM
#4
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If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If turnips were swords I'd have one by my side.
"In my world, it's YOU who's the abnormal one."
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10 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:35PM
#5
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People continue to think this isnt a bug. To quote a somewhat obnoxious player i ran into:
"9:30 PM REDACTED: its a card and not banned and it plays the way its played unless they decide to change it"
This needs to be fixed or people will start to consistently think its not a bug and things will get ugly.
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10 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2009 - 8:47PM
#6
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This needs to be fixed or people will start to consistently think its not a bug and things will get ugly.
Yes. I ran into a player running Keiga, the Tide Star as their commander last night. He used his commander with Diamond Valley not knowing he was exploiting a bug. In fact most of the other players at the table knew this was a bug. We explained to him how commander works in paper and he honestly did not know he was exploiting a bug. People will continue to abuse this bug as long as it exists.
It is vain to look for a defense against lightning. - Publius Syrus (42 B.C.)
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10 months ago ::
Jun 24, 2009 - 5:45AM
#7
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Unearth, the ability, could be used in coding the Exile replacement effect if we wanted a commander to stay dead or to be exiled.
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9 months ago ::
Jun 24, 2009 - 2:22PM
#8
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I think teaching people the difference between a trigger and a replacement would help them when they want to abuse this bug far outweighs the issue with recoding right now, especially if the dev team for MTGO is limited in time, resources, and funding for all the issues, as they are also working on v4.
Yes, the bug should be fixed, but I get enough debates telling me that the triggered ability allows you to rfg CoA and still wipe the board. They think that because of the way the game does it (puts the card into the graveyard, then asks if you want to rfg it instead) it's the correct way. Osiris, the point of the y/n rfg prompt is in part responsible for this, as it requires the players the option of leaving their commander in the bin OR rfg'ing it, while the unearth coding only rfgs it.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."
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9 months ago ::
Jun 24, 2009 - 3:34PM
#9
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I think teaching people the difference between a trigger and a replacement would help them when they want to abuse this bug far outweighs the issue with recoding right now, especially if the dev team for MTGO is limited in time, resources, and funding for all the issues, as they are also working on v4.
Yes, the bug should be fixed, but I get enough debates telling me that the triggered ability allows you to rfg CoA and still wipe the board. They think that because of the way the game does it (puts the card into the graveyard, then asks if you want to rfg it instead) it's the correct way. Osiris, the point of the y/n rfg prompt is in part responsible for this, as it requires the players the option of leaving their commander in the bin OR rfg'ing it, while the unearth coding only rfgs it.
Child of Alara - When Child of Alara is put into a graveyard from play, destroy all nonland permanents. They can't be regenerated.
Notice the part about "graveyard"? When someone Exiles their Commander in place of death, it means it never reaches the grave, which means, it doesn't get the effect.
Use that to explain it. In order to trigger off death, it must die to the grave, not be exiled.
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9 months ago ::
Jun 24, 2009 - 8:57PM
#10
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The best implementation would be that whenever a Commander would be destroyed or otherwise possibly put into a GY, it should instead be placed into a temporary zone where a new window would pop up, let's call it the "Leaving Play Zone" (or we could call it "Purgatory" if you want to get flavorful), with the choice of placing the Commander into the GY or returning it to the Exile zone.
"In my world, it's YOU who's the abnormal one."
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