|
2 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 1:53PM
#1
|
|
|
Figured it'd be good to start a thread talking about the state of Prismatic B&R and some ideas to improve it.
Will post more later but this is my first take on a list:
Banned - 12
Battle of Wits
Bribery
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Demonic Consultation
Gifts Ungiven
Imperial Seal
Insidious Dreams
Mystical Tutor
Sundering Titan
Upheaval
Vampiric Tutor
Wild Research
Resritcted - 35
Life From the Loam
Detritivore
Enduring Ideal
Flash
Mana Crypt
Rude Awakening
Skullclamp
Tooth and Nail
Buried Alive
Burning Wish
Congregation at Dawn
Cunning Wish
Diabolic Intent
Diabolic Tutor
Demonic Collusion
Eladamri's Call
Enlightened Tutor
Entomb
Fabricate
Glittering Wish
Living Wish
Merchant Scroll
Mystical Teachings
Quiet Speculation
Sterling Grove
Supply/Demand
Worldly Tutor
Tolaria West
Idyllic Tutor
Liliana Vess
Doomsday
Planar Portal
Mirari's Wake
Protean Hulk
Grindstone (preemptive restriction)
Cards that are banned (or should be) that I don't have on my lists:
Brainspoil
Clutch of the Undercity
Dimir House Guard
Dimir Machinations
Dizzy Spell
Drift of Phantasms
Ethereal Usher
Grozoth
Netherborn Phalanx
Perplex
Summoner's Pact
Beseech the Queen
Primal Command
What do other people think?
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 2:17PM
#2
|
|
|
Figured it'd be good to start a thread talking about the state of Prismatic B&R and some ideas to improve it.
Will post more later but this is my first take on a list:
Banned - 12
Battle of Wits
Bribery
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Demonic Consultation
Gifts Ungiven
Imperial Seal
Insidious Dreams
Mystical Tutor
Sundering Titan
Upheaval
Vampiric Tutor
Wild Research
Resritcted - 35
Life From the Loam
Detritivore
Enduring Ideal
Flash
Mana Crypt
Rude Awakening
Skullclamp
Tooth and Nail
Buried Alive
Burning Wish
Congregation at Dawn
Cunning Wish
Diabolic Intent
Diabolic Tutor
Demonic Collusion
Eladamri's Call
Enlightened Tutor
Entomb
Fabricate
Glittering Wish
Living Wish
Merchant Scroll
Mystical Teachings
Quiet Speculation
Sterling Grove
Supply/Demand
Worldly Tutor
Tolaria West
Idyllic Tutor
Liliana Vess
Doomsday
Planar Portal
Mirari's Wake
Protean Hulk
Grindstone (preemptive restriction)
Cards that are banned (or should be) that I don't have on my lists:
Brainspoil
Clutch of the Undercity
Dimir House Guard
Dimir Machinations
Dizzy Spell
Drift of Phantasms
Ethereal Usher
Grozoth
Netherborn Phalanx
Perplex
Summoner's Pact
Beseech the Queen
Primal Command
What do other people think?
I think we should only have a restricted list for Pris, with the lone exception being Battle of Wits. I mean play Prismatic singleton and see how efficient having only one card in a deck is. I would like to see ALL tutor effects be restricted to one of.
The idea of a banned list in a Classic format baffles me since its the format were Wizos says that every card has a chance of seeing play.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 2:54PM
#3
|
|
|
Tooth and Nail is stronger than Bribery, yet you have Bribery in banned list while Tooth is in restricted. Bringer of the Black Dawn isn't much stronger than Liliana, so I'd throw Bringer to restricted list.
Don't see why you want Wake to be restricted. Aggro doesn't even use it, and many combo decks doesn't need it either. Sure it's nice in control, but far from overpowering. I think Detrivore could be 4 of perhaps. None of the transmute cards should be banned.
However, I think only restricted list (sans Battle of Wits, which should propably stay banned) like tripster proposed could work somehow.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 3:42PM
#4
|
|
|
Restricted list only seems bad to me. Games become tutor for Sundering Titan->play Sundering Titan. (Or just cast Aquire.)
Oh and Gifts Ungiven in the format with tons of ways to tutor for it? Seems really unhealthy.
Also with no restricted tutors combo becomes much bigger issue I think that you'd have to restrict Flash, Protean Hulk, Grindstone, Painter's Servant, and World Gouger Dragon.
Could be wrong on Tooth v Bribery but Bribery does cost about half as much, probably fine restricting it.
Wake can probably come off the restricted list. My issue with it is that in casual control mirrors if one person has it and other does not they win 9/10 times. Mana Reflection has given a second option however so probably leave Wake alone.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 4:45PM
#5
|
|
|
I am definitely for a restricted list, but I'd drop Tooth and Nail and other cards that put things directly into play from the library into the banned list. Otherwise games just hinge around drawing and resolving a single spell. If you're for banning Battle of Wits, why not any other 1 card "combo?"
Demonic Collusion, too, with Life from the Loam seems crazy for casual play (tutor for the Loam first, then tutor for whatever every turn after that), but I guess it's slow so it's not so bad.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 5:08PM
#6
|
|
|
I am definitely for a restricted list, but I'd drop Tooth and Nail and other cards that put things directly into play from the library into the banned list. Otherwise games just hinge around drawing and resolving a single spell. If you're for banning Battle of Wits, why not any other 1 card "combo?"
Demonic Collusion, too, with Life from the Loam seems crazy for casual play (tutor for the Loam first, then tutor for whatever every turn after that), but I guess it's slow so it's not so bad.
I can see banning T&N it is stupidly back breaking. Yeah DC&LftL was basically how I won Prismatic games when Collusion was legal. Now it is how I win EDH with my most broken deck.
On other thing I think should be brought up is the sideboard. I'm in favor of making it ether 25 or 0 cards. Personally I think 0 is better, don't think the format needs SBs. With it at 15 its a joke. You can basically sideboard vs one deck which I think is a bit silly.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 6:08PM
#7
|
|
|
I think you ought to go for a straight banned list and not a mix 'n' match of banned and restricted.
Either it's too powerful or it's not.
"No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood."
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 04, 2008 - 2:28AM
#8
|
|
|
(Yeah, I'm cross posting this message, but I think it's relevant to both threads I'm posting it into, but I'll more to this post). Something of interest to us: http://forums.gleemax.com/member.php?u=516092
There was an error in the B&R announcement.
The announcement erroneously said that Imperial Seal and Mana Crypt will be restrictedin Tribal Wars Classic and Prismatic because they "follow Online Classic." These are separate formats with their own B&R lists, and those two cards will not be restricted in those formats.
The announcement has been edited to reflect this.
Although, this means that Imperial Seal is going to be allowed as a 4x in Prismatic until December, since they didn't add anything at all about Prismatic once they fixed the announcement.
So it looks like it was a mistake to add things to a restricted list for Prix, however, I still think that a split of restricted/banned is a better idea for the format though. Although my line in the sand is a bit different than Ice's.
To me, any carte blanche tutor should remain banned. Any card that says: "Search your library for a card" & "put that card" & "hand" | "top of your library" should be banned. All other tutors should be restricted until they've proven their need to be banned.
Also, Prismatic really needs 'casual' options to not follow the B&R at all.
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 04, 2008 - 3:43AM
#9
|
|
|
I think you ought to go for a straight banned list and not a mix 'n' match of banned and restricted.
Either it's too powerful or it's not.
I disagree. Some cards are too powerful if you can build around but fine as a 1x. Best example I think are Wishes. If you want to use up 3-6 sideboard slots on targets for one wish go ahead but its fairly weak. Also cards like Congregation at Dawn would be too powerful as a 4x as you can just stack your deck with a creature based combo. As a 1x that danger is gone.
(Yeah, I'm cross posting this message, but I think it's relevant to both threads I'm posting it into, but I'll more to this post).
Something of interest to us:
http://forums.gleemax.com/member.php?u=516092
Although, this means that Imperial Seal is going to be allowed as a 4x in Prismatic until December, since they didn't add anything at all about Prismatic once they fixed the announcement.
So it looks like it was a mistake to add things to a restricted list for Prix, however, I still think that a split of restricted/banned is a better idea for the format though. Although my line in the sand is a bit different than Ice's.
Thanks for the update though good to know that Prismatic will be even more broken than before. Downside is there goes the precedent for restricted cards in Prismatic.
To me, any carte blanche tutor should remain banned. Any card that says: "Search your library for a card" & "put that card" & "hand" | "top of your library" should be banned. All other tutors should be restricted until they've proven their need to be banned.
I'd be careful saying the words "any tutor." I'm not sure how much Prismatic you play but Steelshaper's Gift and Dizzy Spell not big issues. Granted my list doesn't ban Clamp but the card is more fair when there is only one and you have to tutor it up. That said I could see restricting Trinket Mage if Clamp isn't banned.
Also, Prismatic really needs 'casual' options to not follow the B&R at all.
I vote no, just play Classic with a 250 card 5 color deck if you want that.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Sep 04, 2008 - 4:24AM
#10
|
|
|
This list is too long. There is no way I could remember which cards are on the list.
Even if I did remember, then I have to remember which cards are banned and which ones are restricted.
I know prismatic players want to minimize cards that let people search, but I think at some point you have to just look at the list and say, this isn't feasible.
Perhaps prismatic really is dead. Maybe 100 card singleton should be its functional replacement. I know that is probably an unpopular thought, but how many cards are on that list? There is no way WotC can reliably and intelligently maintain that list.
|
|
|
