|
|
There has been lots of discussion about what is allowed in Prismatic gents decks in the multiplayer room. I am going to list the concerns that everyone poses both here and in the game. It is generally agreed that a fun prismatic game involves different decks attempting different strategies, not some players sitting around while others play. That is the overarching concern of all these rules, and the most valid concern for proposing a new rule. The game itself restricts searches, and that is part of the fun of a large deck.
I am also going to list rules that people have proposed. Since it is only fair to give the game the presumption of setting the rules, each rule that is proposed will be accepted if it has two people who want it more than the people who object. I will try to keep an accurate listing of who is for and against any rule, so please post if I make mistakes. All rules proposed will be listed, but only those in bold will be in effect because they currently have the proper number of votes (2 more supporters than objectors.)
Voting is limited to people who play prismatic in the multiplayer room online on a regular basis.
Issues
Mana tampering
It has generally been the rule that all mana only land cannot be destroyed. This has included removing from game, bouncing, borrowing or stealing mana only land. This is because messing with an opponent's mana base can easily destroy the ability to do anything at all. Tapping, keeping land from untapping, changing land types (Blood Moon) and similar manipulation constitute a gray area.
On the other hand, declaring a whole class of cards as untouchable can lead to abuses. For example, certain cards depend on the number of lands you control such as Nightmare. Lands can be animated by genjus and other cards. Some lands themselves have multiple purposes.
Some cards, such as Overgrowth, Birds of Paradise and signets usually provide only mana. These cards can also be used to help with affinity, blocking, enchantresses or counting as creatures for the purpose of other cards.
Discard
It is generally accepted that some discard is allowed. Some players would ban discard altogether. The rule as is currently usually played restricts discard to two cards discarded from each opponent in each turn.
Loops
Infinite loops, when executed quickly can be a winning combination that some feel is perfectly fine. The problem is that infinite loops can sometimes be annoyingly long, interrupt the game and force the opponents to sit around waiting for long periods. Kiki-Jiki is a card that can be used to create an infinite loop easily in combination with cards such as Intruder Alarm.
Deck search
The game allows some search and disallows others. Some effects, such Liliana, duplicate banned forms of search. Land search, on the other hand, is very common and helps make the game easier to play.
Lockdown
Certain cards stop opponents from being able to play for a period of time. This includes Decree of Silence. Some effects cause complete loss of control or make it impossible for opponents to play. For example, Mindslaver, Brine Elemental, Yosei or Tidespout Tyrant can be used to keep opponents from taking action for an extended period. Erayo can be used with Rule of Law to cause an almost complete lockdown permanently.
Extra turns
Certain cards give a single player extra turns or change the order of play. These cards can also be used as part of an infinite loop of turns.
Deck destruction
Because prismatic requires at least 250 cards in the deck, it is difficult to remove a player's library. It is not impossible. Traumatize and Haunting Echoes can be used effectively in games that are not singleton. Tormod's Crypt can be used to heavily limit the cards that can be retrieved, including basic lands. Aven Mindcensor can heavily limit the ability to fetch lands. Some cards can be used to empty a deck of certain types of cards, which can actually be a benefit. For example, a Journeyer's Kite can be used to remove lands from the deck to increase spell-draws or simply shuffle the deck.
Simplicity
The proliferation of a lot of rules can lead to further confusion and limit the number of people willing to construct a deck to its specifications.
Rules (persons for/persons against)
Deck construction
[LIST=1]
Limit the number of counterspells to below 5% of deck (Mothership, Argyris, rebrab, Nyghthunter/AnimalWedding, fresst00)
Limit the use of board clearing cards (Akroma's Vengeance, Final Judgement, Damnation, Decree of Pain) to one of each card. (Argyris, rebrab/Mothership, AnimalWedding)
Limit use of counterspells to one of each card. (rebrab/Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding)
Limit counterspells to 20 or less in the deck total. (Argyris, wilf, rebrab, fresst00/Mothership, AnimalWedding)
Ban counterspells to 10 or less in the deck total. (Argyris, wilf, rebrab/Mothership, AnimalWedding, fresst00)
Ban use of counterspells that do not go to graveyard after use (Counterbalance, Patron Wizard). (Argyris, rebrab/AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban use of all counterspells and counter effects. (Racer I./MoonWraith, rebrab, fresst00)
Ban use of permanently cycling cards. (Reality Strobe, etc). (Briddums, rebrab/Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban use of permanent theft (Evangelize).(Argyris, Mothership, Racer I., rebrab/Briddums, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban putting cards from opponents' decks into play under your permanent control (Acquire). (Racer I., wilf, rebrab/Argyris, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban putting cards from opponents' graveyard into play under your permanent control (Night's Eye, Beacon of Unrest). (Racer I., wilf, rebrab/Argyris, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban remove from game effects (Crib Swap, Cremate). (Racer I./, MoonWraith, rebrab), fresst00
Ban turn manipulation. (Nyghthunter, fresst00/)
Game play
[LIST=1]
Ban discard (Racer I., Argyris/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, rebrab, fresst00)
Ban discard greater than 1 per turn (/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, rebrab, fresst00)
Ban discard greater than 1 per player (Argyris, rebrab, fresst00/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith)
Ban discard greater than 2 per turn (rebrab/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban discard greater than 2 per player (Argyris, Mothership, Briddums, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, wilf, rebrab, fresst00/)
Ban repeat discard by a card that does not go to the graveyard. (Argyris, wilf, rebrab, fresst00/)
Ban mana only land destruction (Argyris, Mothership, Briddums, AnimalWedding, Racer I., MoonWraith, wilf, rebrab, fresst00/)
Ban all mana manipulation against opponents (Mothership, rebrab, fresst00/Argyris, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith)
Ban destruction of mana only artifacts (Mothership, AnimalWedding, Racer I., rebrab/Argyris, Briddums, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban destruction of mana only creatures (Mothership, AnimalWedding, rebrab/Argyris, Briddums, Racer I., MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban manipulation of mana producing cards against a player unable to produce 1 mana of each color and 5 mana in total. (Mothership, Argyris, MoonWraith, rebrab, fresst00/AnimalWedding)
Ban counterspell of land fetch (Mothership, Racer I., wilf, rebrab, fresst00/Briddums, AnimalWedding, Argyris, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter)
Ban counterspell of basic land fetch (Mothership, Argyris, Briddums, MoonWraith, wilf, rebrab, fresst00/AnimalWedding, Nyghthunter)
Ban counterspell of land fetch for basic land type except for Harrow (AnimalWedding, wilf, rebrab, Nyghthunter, fresst00/MoonWraith)
Ban counterspell of card draw (Mothership, Argyris, rebrab/AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban direct damage to players (Racer I., rebrab/Mothership, Argyris, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban direct damage to players greater than 10 per turn (MoonWraith, rebrab/Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding, fresst00)
Ban use of buyback (rebrab/Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding, Racer I., MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban use of flashback (/Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding, Racer I., MoonWraith, rebrab, fresst00)
Ban use of buyback in singleton only (Mothership, wilf, rebrab/Argyris, Briddums, AnimalWedding, Racer I., MoonWraith, fresst00)
Ban use of flashback in singleton only (Mothership/Argyris, Briddums, AnimalWedding, Racer I., MoonWraith, rebrab, fresst00)
Ban use of alternative win conditions (Racer I., rebrab/Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, fresst00)
If you create an infinite loop, you must win on your turn or concede. (Argyris, Mothership, rebrab, fresst00/AnimalWedding)
If you take more than two turns in a row, you must win on your third turn or concede. (Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, rebrab/fresst00)
Do not complain about a card or action unless it was specifically banned in the game description or the game was advertised as gents and the action violated one of the bold rules here (Argyris, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, rebrab, fresst00/)
Specific cards
[LIST=1]
Ban Liliana Vex (Argyris, Mothership, Briddums, AnimalWedding, Racer I., MoonWraith, wilf, fresst00/Nyghthunter)
Ban Mindslaver (Argyris, Mothership, Briddums, Racer I., MoonWraith, wilf, fresst00/AnimalWedding)
Ban Erayo (Briddums/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Time Stretch (AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Argyris, Nyghthunter/Mothership, fresst00)
Ban Walk the Aeons (AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Argyris, Nyghthunter/Mothership, fresst00)
Ban Aven Mindcensor (Argyris, Mothership/AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Brine Elemental (Argyris/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Yosei (Argyris/Mothership, Briddums, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Coalition Victory (/Argyris, Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Panglacial Wurm (Argyris/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Arc-Slogger (Argyris/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Trinket Mage (Argyris/Mothership, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Kokusho (Argyris, Mothership, Racer I., wilf, fresst00/Briddums, AnimalWedding, MoonWraith)
Ban Teferri (Mothership, Racer I., wilf, Argyris/AnimalWedding, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Kaervek (Argyris, Mothership, Racer I., wilf/Briddums, AnimalWedding, Nyghthunter, fresst00)
Ban Beseech the Queen (Argyris, Briddums, MoonWraith, wilf, fresst00/AnimalWedding, Nyghthunter)
Ban Seedborn Muse (Racer I., Argyris, fresst00/wilf, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter)
Ban Mirari's Wake (Racer I., Argyris, fresst00/wilf, MoonWraith, Nyghthunter)
Ban Personal Tutor (AnimalWedding, Argyris, fresst00/Nyghthunter)
Ban Imperial Seal (AnimalWedding, Argyris, fresst00/Nyghthunter)
Ban Orim's Chant (Nyghthunter, fresst00, Argyris/)
Ban Time Stop (Nyghthunter, Argyris/fresst00)
People who have voted: AnimalWedding, Argyris, Briddums, MoonWraith, Mothership, Nyghthunter, Racer I., rebrab, wilf
This is a work in progress. Comments, questions and suggestions are very helpful.
|
|
|
Prismatic, in my opinion, is about seeing incredible, clever, or incredibly clever things happen. Banning cards does nothing but limit the number of things that can happen in any given game, and also leaves a lot of stuff unanswerable. Let's take a look at an extremely simple example of how a healthy format can operate and evolve.
One player (P1) wins a bunch of games by attacking with nasty creatures.
The other player (P2) starts running a lot of Wrath of God effects to stop P1's strategy.
P1 starts running creatures with haste and flash like Akroma, Magnivore, Panglacial Wurm and Teferi that are hard to deal with, and also stuff like Genesis.
P2 starts running counters to deal with hard to remove creatures like Akroma or indestructible creatures, and Tormod's Crypt and Cremate to deal with Genesis and Recollect type effects.
P1 starts to run counters of their own, like Pyroblast to deal with the huge number of overpowered blue spells that float around in any given game, split second cards like Krosan Grip to deal with Etched Oracle, Pernicious Deed and Oblivion Stone, Decree of Justice as a mostly uncounterable win condition, Imp's Mischief to handle discard, targetted draw, and counters, etc.
P2 responds by going aggro.
...and so on. And that's just an extremely dumbed down version of what happens out there in Magic. If you look at the average 2hg Prismatic deck, you'll see a healthy mix of counters, removal, powerful threats, recurring effects, card draw, direct damage, and uncounterable cards. I had one game (not Prismatic but Commander) where Frenzy277 Mindslaved me and played my Desolation Angel without a kicker. That was an incredible play (something you'd almost never see in any other format), and completely knocked me out of that game, and yet both of those cards are frowned upon by the Gents crew (who obviously can't even come to a consensus among themselves). I think my friend biggysingh13 put it best when he said, "Gents means you can't play cards that win the game." There should be nothing wrong with getting advantages in a game, no matter how large, or preventing your opponent from gaining such advantages.
That said, I have no problem with a lot of the rules that players are usually associated with Gents. I have kept land destruction, mass discard, and extra turns out of my own decks. I just would like to issue a warning that people are always going to be upset when they lose. I knew a fellow Prismatic player (name withheld) who would play anything except land destruction, which I thought was silly. He'd counter, Mindslave and discard to his heart's content, but when I played a Radiate on an entwined Reap and Sow, he even went as far as quitting my clan. This is just an example of how game losses can lead to irrational judgment. There was no logic in his hatred toward LD; the only reason was that he would generally lose to it. Gents, to me, is a culmination of this, and because of that, there will never be a consensus. I can only imagine that people will eventually want cards like Molten Disaster, Decree of Justice, and Seedborn Muse banned, and from there who knows?
You can vote on a list, but people will always have something to complain about. Some folks will cry that the format they love is being mutilated while others insist that banning cards promotes a more fun format for everyone. I'm sure you know my opinion: if a card has an answer (an answer that isn't just 1 card) then why not?
For:
Ban Liliana Vess (I think the reason this was kept in Prismatic was because of its general slowness in the 1v1 format, but we're talking about 2hg here).
Ban mana only destruction.
Ban discard greater than 2 per player per turn.
Ban countering basic land type only fetch except for Harrow (this includes Farseek and Nature's Lore since they can only search for basic land types even though they can grab a dual).
Ban extra turn cards.
Against:
Everything else.
This is what I recommend: keep the Gents format at a bare minimum, then post specific dislikes on your own game description.
|
