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Switch to Forum Live View Naya Assemble the Legion Looking for expert fine-tuning for the Grand-Prix
2 months ago  ::  Mar 20, 2013 - 2:30PM #61
Watercat_
Date Joined: Dec 18, 2012
Posts: 239

Mar 20, 2013 -- 2:27PM, xKenshin_Himura wrote:

Not really, no. I have priority and the 13 damage will kill him first. Man you are a noob.


#getschooledwhiletryingtomakeasmartcomment  



no? blasphemous act is a soccery and if you cast it on your turn your opponent is the non active player. That means that if you both have boros reckoner it will deal damage to you first and then him, meaning you lose

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2 months ago  ::  Mar 20, 2013 - 2:31PM #62
TryuneJMT
Date Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 391

Mar 20, 2013 -- 2:27PM, xKenshin_Himura wrote:

Not really, no. I have priority and the 13 damage will kill him first. Man you are a noob.


#getschooledwhiletryingtomakeasmartcomment  






Exactly.... You you have priority so yours goes on the stack first. its an active player/non active player trigger. Since yours goes on the stack first your opponents resolves first.... 

Lol you should probably leave for a while now... 


tappedout.net/mtg-questions/i-have-a-bor...

magicjudge.tumblr.com/post/43349059191/o...

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2 months ago  ::  Mar 20, 2013 - 2:35PM #63
SuperNobbs
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2011
Posts: 268
Lmao, this has been a pleasure to read. 

End of the day, its up to the OP what he wants to put in.

Would you like a Naya Midrange deck with the appropriate cards?

Or would you like a Naya Midrange Deck with Mayor's, who are pretty much dead to you.

Your call  
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 20, 2013 - 3:25PM #64
Niche
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 8,541
I'm a little confused. I read through this whole thread and it seems like Crusher is looking for a strong naya midrange deck. Now I'm not adverse to pursuing a token angle, but the conceptual list that is being argued is a disjointed stack of 60.

There's the classic naya midrange value cards; Thrag, Resto, Huntmaster... all solid. Reckoner belongs in the party for sure. Then we run into non-traditional cards like Assemble the Legion and Mayor of Avabruck.... which do synergize together somewhat... but not with the traditional naya value shell.

Crusher, when constructing your deck you need to avoid schizophrenic construction like is being suggested here. A lot of times during deck maturation people experiment with different angles and so at times you'll have a hybrid approach... but make no mistake that once you've identified the one that generally performs better you need to cut the cards that push the line you don't want to pursue. To be fair Kenshin has two halves of good decks. But they're each missing the other halves. To also be fair I really don't think Assemble the Legion is a maindeck card since it shines against control shells and less so against aggro... and Akroma's Memorial... really.

Now, to everyone in general let's be careful about the 'dies to removal' argument. It's ok to use it against cards that meet the following criteria:
1. Do not provide value on resolution (Thragtusk, Huntmaster, Resto Angel usually). 
2. Do not have haste (Ash Zealot, Strangleroot Geist). 
3. Do not end the game with immediacy on resolution (a huge creature that if you untap and connect with kills your opponent, like Phage the Untouchable as an example).

Saying anything that actually does meet any of those criteria dies to removal is usually correct. On the topic of Mayor of Avabruck he in a vacuum does not meet the criteria and is a valid target of dies to removal. However there are some exceptions where its a strong card:

1. Played on curve to pump preceding creatures. This is how he has provided value on resolution. This is also where Naya Blitz (naya humans) gets usage from it. If he resolves and basically causes 2-3 damage before dying then he wasn't a complete wash.
2. Your opponent is playing a non-interactive deck that just plays lands and passes turn, like Draw-Go. Here he's a fantastic sideboard card.

Now, the argument on Mayor being good seems to involve a few things I've seen:
1. Your opponent doing nothing.
2. Your opponent not having a direct answer.
3. You taking a turn off to flip it.
4. You having other cards in play to make it better, and conversely mayor making those cards better.

By the points:
1. Your opponent has a bad deck, or you've gotten a great matchup against Draw Go. This deck doesn't exist in standard.
2. Your opponent may have a bad deck, be bricking on draws/generally unlucky.
3. You played a land and passed turn a 1/1 into a 3/3, which is the same as spending all of your mana that turn to make a 3/3 that if you get to untap with and get to your end step will make a strong token.
4. Logical fallacy. Careful of this.

The odds of your opponent not having a direct answer to mayor or a spell to play on their turn is extremely low. Now when that happens I expect if you like Mayor enough you'll untap, draw, maybe play a land, and pass turn. Now you can force the flip... and hope your opponent doesn't have a removal spell or isn't beating your face in because they don't care about your 1/1 blocker. Now if things have gone ideally for you they untap and have now seen two additional cards to kill your Mayor. Or they could simply since it's turn 4/5 just play 2 spells and really make you miserable since they didn't expend a single resource to remove it, they just potentially advanced their board state or drew cards which is almost a double time walk.

Long into short, the potency of Mayor outside of providing immediate pumps to humans relies too heavily on your opponent's decision making and plays to be consistently good.

Crusher, the lesson here is to always select cards that have a guaranteed mean value for a midrange deck. Midrange decks are trying to grind out wins based on value. Mayor will not provide consistent value against opponents who know how to read and have a real deck.

EDIT: Fixed my logical criteria from ORs to ANDs, long day of coding = brain gas. 


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2 months ago  ::  Mar 20, 2013 - 5:54PM #65
TryuneJMT
Date Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 391

Mar 20, 2013 -- 3:25PM, Niche wrote:

I'm a little confused. I read through this whole thread and it seems like Crusher is looking for a strong naya midrange deck. Now I'm not adverse to pursuing a token angle, but the conceptual list that is being argued is a disjointed stack of 60.

There's the classic naya midrange value cards; Thrag, Resto, Huntmaster... all solid. Reckoner belongs in the party for sure. Then we run into non-traditional cards like Assemble the Legion and Mayor of Avabruck.... which do synergize together somewhat... but not with the traditional naya value shell.

Crusher, when constructing your deck you need to avoid schizophrenic construction like is being suggested here. A lot of times during deck maturation people experiment with different angles and so at times you'll have a hybrid approach... but make no mistake that once you've identified the one that generally performs better you need to cut the cards that push the line you don't want to pursue. To be fair Kenshin has two halves of good decks. But they're each missing the other halves. To also be fair I really don't think Assemble the Legion is a maindeck card since it shines against control shells and less so against aggro... and Akroma's Memorial... really.

Now, to everyone in general let's be careful about the 'dies to removal' argument. It's ok to use it against cards that meet the following criteria:
1. Do not provide value on resolution (Thragtusk, Huntmaster, Resto Angel usually). 
2. Do not have haste (Ash Zealot, Strangleroot Geist). 
3. Do not end the game with immediacy on resolution (a huge creature that if you untap and connect with kills your opponent, like Phage the Untouchable as an example).

Saying anything that actually does meet any of those criteria dies to removal is usually correct. On the topic of Mayor of Avabruck he in a vacuum does not meet the criteria and is a valid target of dies to removal. However there are some exceptions where its a strong card:

1. Played on curve to pump preceding creatures. This is how he has provided value on resolution. This is also where Naya Blitz (naya humans) gets usage from it. If he resolves and basically causes 2-3 damage before dying then he wasn't a complete wash.
2. Your opponent is playing a non-interactive deck that just plays lands and passes turn, like Draw-Go. Here he's a fantastic sideboard card.

Now, the argument on Mayor being good seems to involve a few things I've seen:
1. Your opponent doing nothing.
2. Your opponent not having a direct answer.
3. You taking a turn off to flip it.
4. You having other cards in play to make it better, and conversely mayor making those cards better.

By the points:
1. Your opponent has a bad deck, or you've gotten a great matchup against Draw Go. This deck doesn't exist in standard.
2. Your opponent may have a bad deck, be bricking on draws/generally unlucky.
3. You played a land and passed turn a 1/1 into a 3/3, which is the same as spending all of your mana that turn to make a 3/3 that if you get to untap with and get to your end step will make a strong token.
4. Logical fallacy. Careful of this.

The odds of your opponent not having a direct answer to mayor or a spell to play on their turn is extremely low. Now when that happens I expect if you like Mayor enough you'll untap, draw, maybe play a land, and pass turn. Now you can force the flip... and hope your opponent doesn't have a removal spell or isn't beating your face in because they don't care about your 1/1 blocker. Now if things have gone ideally for you they untap and have now seen two additional cards to kill your Mayor. Or they could simply since it's turn 4/5 just play 2 spells and really make you miserable since they didn't expend a single resource to remove it, they just potentially advanced their board state or drew cards which is almost a double time walk.

Long into short, the potency of Mayor outside of providing immediate pumps to humans relies too heavily on your opponent's decision making and plays to be consistently good.

Crusher, the lesson here is to always select cards that have a guaranteed mean value for a midrange deck. Midrange decks are trying to grind out wins based on value. Mayor will not provide consistent value against opponents who know how to read and have a real deck.

EDIT: Fixed my logical criteria from ORs to ANDs, long day of coding = brain gas. 






Yeah.... What Niche said....  x9082374509837

I was going to take all the that time to explain that but.... I was attempting to code and secretly post on the forums =)

Mayor is a good card but not in this shell, I think in a nutshell you need something that provides immediate value to you upon resolution, and in a competitive standard environment that will not be Mayor in this deck.

I would really like to hear Kenshin's point of view after he seemingly dissappeared after well calling some of us noobs for correctly understanding the AP/NP stack =)

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2 months ago  ::  Mar 20, 2013 - 6:36PM #66
Watercat_
Date Joined: Dec 18, 2012
Posts: 239
Just let it go, theres no need to gloat over it

I think the next topic should be the playability of assemble the legion maindeck. Thragtusk and primal hunter are much better 5 drops, and assemble the legion is incredabily slow. it is worthless against aggro, and most people run it side. I see how it can work out with blasphemous act but imo its way too slow. I think its good 2 of in sideboard against control and slower decks but i honestly wouldn't run it mainboard. not saying its a bad card, just there are probably better options mainboard.
and on that matter i'm not too convinced about 2 domri's mainboard either. i would honestly much rather have some form of spot removal, even selesnya charm over it. card draw is nice, but the chance of getting a creature is less than 50%
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 21, 2013 - 12:13AM #67
Crusher92RR
Date Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Posts: 41
I main-board assemble the legion every game. I do great =D Also just sticked Craterhoof Behemoth into my deck...
You guys should come check it out seriously!! I stream every morning at

around 7-9am PST. All the way through to 2-3 PM PST.
I wake up early in time to stream the standard 4-round's against tough net-decks. Would love the company , conversation , and support!
& @ Watercat , Assemble is not bad against aggro. I play it great vs aggro and win consistently vs aggro without having to side them out. 
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