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Mar 25, 2013 -- 5:23PM, Qilong wrote:

Mar 25, 2013 -- 4:09PM, TobyornotToby wrote:

Mar 25, 2013 -- 4:05PM, Qilong wrote:

The presence of a land that's also an enchantment as I suggested above (with only a single colorless mana ability) is by itself valueless. In contexts where enchantments matter, it will matter quite a bit I can imagine, but not necessarily outside of such. Lucent Liminid never broke anything, and was in fact rather low-key because it didn't have anything "enchantment-y" about it.

Lucent Liminid doesn't break anything the same way Millennial Gargoyle doesn't break what Darksteel Citadel breaks.

Darksteel Citadel doesn't break anything. It was the lands that could tap for color that broke things, because they were practically Moxen. This is why Citadel only got banned in Block, but the rest got banned in multiple formats (Standard and Extended when it was relevant, Modern, and Block).

Hmm, an interesting thought experiment, if Seat of the Synod was the only artifact land ever printed (the other 5 wouldn't exist) would it have been broken?

Mar 25, 2013 -- 6:12PM, Qilong wrote:

Mar 25, 2013 -- 6:05PM, TobyornotToby wrote:

Mar 25, 2013 -- 5:23PM, Qilong wrote:

Mar 25, 2013 -- 4:09PM, TobyornotToby wrote:

Mar 25, 2013 -- 4:05PM, Qilong wrote:

The presence of a land that's also an enchantment as I suggested above (with only a single colorless mana ability) is by itself valueless. In contexts where enchantments matter, it will matter quite a bit I can imagine, but not necessarily outside of such. Lucent Liminid never broke anything, and was in fact rather low-key because it didn't have anything "enchantment-y" about it.

Lucent Liminid doesn't break anything the same way Millennial Gargoyle doesn't break what Darksteel Citadel breaks.

Darksteel Citadel doesn't break anything. It was the lands that could tap for color that broke things, because they were practically Moxen. This is why Citadel only got banned in Block, but the rest got banned in multiple formats (Standard and Extended when it was relevant, Modern, and Block).

Hmm, an interesting thought experiment, if Seat of the Synod was the only artifact land ever printed (the other 5 wouldn't exist) would it have been broken?

An uncounterable Mox Sapphire in an artifact-based Block? Certainly broken, but it may have allowed Ravager-Affinity (Raffinity) to survive, as those decks ran between 10-16 artifact lands. Arguably, cutting it down to merely, say, Seat of the Synod would probably have been fine; but I note that they were unwilling to attempt artifact lands even for Esper in Alara Block. Experimentation of things like Time Sieve , Thopter Foundry and an artifact land or two would probably result in No.

well we all have to face the fact that wizards are not going to remke and buff most of the 'power 9' cards, we have picked enchant (probobly not many peoples first choice (mine was creature) but we have to stick with it) and we need to pick a colour do lets pick and stop arguing about something that can only be changed next time.

personly i think we we need a green card and im not being bias *hides green/white deck under table*

Mar 26, 2013 -- 10:33AM, Spuuky wrote:

Mar 25, 2013 -- 6:12PM, Qilong wrote:

An uncounterable Mox Sapphire in an artifact-based Block?

You lost me here. A Seat of the Synod is NOT a Mox Sapphire. One of them uses your land drop for the turn (an incredibly important resource on turns 1-3 at least). The other does not. 

The comparison is not my own, but was in fact made by some in R&D (somewhere along the debate to ban them, or discuss their effect in Standard/Block/Extended at the time). My memory fails me, and a quick Google search fails to narrow down the search options in the few minutes I devoted to this reply. Nonetheless, the only thing that seems to differ between the two is that Artifact Lands have the additional type, which is both a negative (once per turn), and a benefit (uncounterable to drop or activate). These may not necessarily balance one another out, as the negative prevents you dropping your hand turn 1 as readily, but it means the comparison is still quite apt: You can Tinker them away, they are just as vulnerable and probably more so to the Mox Monkey or Viashino Heretic , you can sac them to either Slobad or Goblin Welder , and so forth. They are just as vulnerable, albeit not as enabling. They were also banned, a feature Moxen only enjoy in Legacy and EDH, but for very similar power reasons.

Mar 25, 2013 -- 10:21AM, Spuuky wrote:

REDDDDDDDDD please for the love of god red. 

Chaos! Confusion! Gargardons!

I agree. Give us a fixed Goblin Bomb .