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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:34PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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some various questions: 1) I cast Raging Goblin  . While it's on the stack, my opponent uses their Circle of Protection: Red  , choosing my Raging Goblin when choosing the source. When my Raging Goblin resolves and attacks, does the damage it would deal get prevented? 2) suppose i use any one of the following abilities: - i activate a Forecast ability - i activate a Ninjutsu ability - (or more usefully for my opponent), i activate Infernal Spawn of Evil  ability (assuming that the length of time its revealed from my hand when i activate its ability is similar to either how Forecast or Ninjutsu works) can my opponent's Story Circle  (with the appropriate colour chosen) ever be able to choose the card i reveal from my hand as the chosen source, in any of the above cases, even though the card in my hand is still in a hidden zone?
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:43PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
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1) I cast Raging Goblin . While it's on the stack, my opponent uses their Circle of Protection: Red , choosing my Raging Goblin when choosing the source. When my Raging Goblin resolves and attacks, does the damage it would deal get prevented?
Yes. Prevention effects linger onto permanent spells after they enter the battlefield.
2) suppose i use any one of the following abilities:
- i activate a Forecast ability
- i activate a Ninjutsu ability
- (or more usefully for my opponent), i activate Infernal Spawn of Evil ability (assuming that the length of time its revealed from my hand when i activate its ability is similar to either how Forecast or Ninjutsu works)
can my opponent's Story Circle (with the appropriate colour chosen) ever be able to choose the card i reveal from my hand as the chosen source, in any of the above cases, even though the card in my hand is still in a hidden zone?
The card is revealed from the time you activate it until the time it resovles. If your opponent activates Story Circle in that time frame, he can choose it as a source.
Rules Advisor Please autocard: [c ]Disenchant[/c ] = Disenchant  .
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:46PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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1) I cast Raging Goblin . While it's on the stack, my opponent uses their Circle of Protection: Red , choosing my Raging Goblin when choosing the source. When my Raging Goblin resolves and attacks, does the damage it would deal get prevented?
Yes. Prevention effects linger onto permanent spells after they enter the battlefield.
i can't seem to find where it says that in the comp rules. can you help me out?
2) suppose i use any one of the following abilities:
- i activate a Forecast ability
- i activate a Ninjutsu ability
- (or more usefully for my opponent), i activate Infernal Spawn of Evil ability (assuming that the length of time its revealed from my hand when i activate its ability is similar to either how Forecast or Ninjutsu works)
can my opponent's Story Circle (with the appropriate colour chosen) ever be able to choose the card i reveal from my hand as the chosen source, in any of the above cases, even though the card in my hand is still in a hidden zone?
The card is revealed from the time you activate it until the time it resovles. If your opponent activates Story Circle in that time frame, he can choose it as a source.
wow, this surprises me! my opponent can choose an object that is in a hidden zone that is hidden from them?!!
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:50PM
#4
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- Niftily helpful
- DCI Level 2 Judge
Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
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This probably covers everything: 609.7a If an effect requires a player to choose a source of damage, he or she may choose a permanent; a spell on the stack (including a permanent spell); any object referred to by an object on the stack, by a replacement or prevention effect that's waiting to apply, or by a delayed triggered ability that's waiting to trigger (even if that object is no longer in the zone it used to be in); or, for certain casual variant games, a face-up card in the command zone. A source doesn't need to be capable of dealing damage to be a legal choice. The source is chosen when the effect is created. If the player chooses a permanent, the effect will apply to the next damage dealt by that permanent, regardless of whether it's combat damage or damage dealt as the result of a spell or ability. If the player chooses a permanent spell, the effect will apply to any damage dealt by that spell and any damage dealt by the permanent that spell becomes when it resolves.
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DCI Level 2 Judge
Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:56PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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Natedogg, it does, thanks.
i did a Ctrl+F on the comprehensive rules for "hidden zone", and i realize i was reading WAY too much into something being in a hidden zone. it's embarrassing to admit, but in my mind i was making up rules (such as "all cards in a hidden zone that are hidden from a player are indestinguishable from each other, and thus any individual card in that hidden zone cannot be chosen by that player") that don't exist.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:58PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
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There's also this: 701.13a. To reveal a card, show that card to all players for a brief time. If an effect causes a card to be revealed, it remains revealed for as long as necessary to complete the parts of the effect that card is relevant to. If the cost to cast a spell or activate an ability includes revealing a card, the card remains revealed from the time the spell or ability is announced until it the time it leaves the stack.
Rules Advisor Please autocard: [c ]Disenchant[/c ] = Disenchant .
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3 months ago ::
Mar 08, 2013 - 12:04AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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oh, cool. so i know that Infernal Spawn of Evil (and his kid, Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil  ) can be chosen by Story Circle. (although doing it for the latter card is kind of crazy -- choosing an object that's in the middle of an opponent's library  ) (i only knew about how long a card with a Forecast or Ninjutsu ability is revealed by reading their respective entires in the comp rules; i didn't know about the rule you posted).
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3 months ago ::
Mar 08, 2013 - 7:40AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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2) suppose
- i activate a Forecast ability
can my opponent's Story Circle (with the appropriate colour chosen) ever be able to choose the card i reveal from my hand as the chosen source, in any of the above cases, even though the card in my hand is still in a hidden zone?
The card is revealed from the time you activate it until the time it resovles. If your opponent activates Story Circle in that time frame, he can choose it as a source.
But then, when the card ceases to be revealed, the Circle loses track of it. If it's later played, you won't be protected against that card, right?
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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3 months ago ::
Mar 08, 2013 - 8:08AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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Correct. It becomes a new object when it moves from the library to the hand, then again when it moves from the hand to the stack. Neither of these are protected by the rule Nate quoted.
It probably also gets lost when it stops being revealed, or at the very least, when your library is shuffled. 401.7 gives us a precedent to believe so, but I can't find a rule that applies to cards being revealed in general.
401.7. If an effect causes a player to play with the top card of his or her library revealed, and that particular card stops being revealed for any length of time before being revealed again, it becomes a new object.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 08, 2013 - 1:10PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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Bowshewicz wrote: === It probably also gets lost when it stops being revealed, or at the very least, when your library is shuffled. === this is only relevant for Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil ? or are you saying that there are cases where the revealed top card of my library can be chosen as a source, in some scenario? and, assuming that it really does become a new object when your library is shuffled, i realize now that you could never use Story Circle on Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil, because after activating Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil's ability, your library (probably) will be shuffled by the spell or ability that let you search through it in the first place. the next time the controller of Story Circle would get priority, Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil will be a new object, therefore not referred to by its activated ability on the stack. (which means the activated ability on the stack will always need to use Last Known Information of the Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil in your library that it was referring to). WOW, i love it when learning the rules more in depth gives you surprising insight on how a card you used before ACTUALLY works!
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