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3 months ago ::
Mar 06, 2013 - 4:11AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2010
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Okay, I had a wierd rule situation pop up in a game that I need some help with. It's probably something simple and dumb I'm overlooking, but I want to get some feedback just in case. Okay, say I have both a nivmagus elemental  and a kiln fiend  in play. I go to cast an Instant spell, let's say lightning bolt  , but haven't resolved it completely yet; it's still on the stack for the moment. Now, here's where I'm confused. Kiln Fiend  gets +3/+0 until end of turn when an Instant spell is cast, but Nivmagus Elemental  gets 2 +1/+1 counters if I exile a spell I currently control(still on the stack?). Here's my question; If I exile the lightning bolt to give Nivmagus elemental  the +1/+1 counters, does Kiln Fiend get it's +3/+0 bonus as well, since a spell was initially cast? Or does kiln fiend 's bonus only activate if a spell fully resolves?
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3 months ago ::
Mar 06, 2013 - 4:16AM
#2
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"Cast" means exactly that: the process of casting a spell and putting it on the stack. As such, by the time Nivmagus Elemental 's ability can be activated to exile Lightning Bolt  , Kiln Fiend 's triggered ability has already gone on the stack, as it did so immediately after Lightning Bolt was cast and added to the stack. If you choose to exile Lightning Bolt , the stack looks as follows: Top (resolves first): * Nivmagus Elemental 's activated ability, which exiled Lightning Bolt as its cost * Kiln Fiend 's triggered ability, which triggered as soon as Lightning Bolt was cast * [ Lightning Bolt would resolve here, but it's been removed from the stack. This signifies where it was on the stack prior to being exiled.] Removing the spell that caused Kiln Fiend 's ability to trigger will not stop that triggered ability from resolving, as the ability only cares about an instant or sorcery spell being cast -- if it's countered or otherwise removed from the stack before resolving, Kiln Fiend 's triggered ability will still resolve successfully.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 06, 2013 - 4:20AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2010
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"Cast" means exactly that: the process of casting a spell and putting it on the stack. As such, by the time Nivmagus Elemental 's ability can be activated to exile Lightning Bolt , Kiln Fiend 's triggered ability has already gone on the stack, as it did so immediately after Lightning Bolt was cast and added to the stack. If you choose to exile Lightning Bolt , the stack looks as follows:
Top (resolves first):
* Nivmagus Elemental 's activated ability, which exiled Lightning Bolt as its cost
* Kiln Fiend 's triggered ability, which triggered as soon as Lightning Bolt was cast
* [ Lightning Bolt would resolve here, but it's been removed from the stack. This signifies where it was on the stack prior to being exiled.]
Removing the spell that caused Kiln Fiend 's ability to trigger will not stop that triggered ability from resolving, as the ability only cares about an instant or sorcery spell being cast -- if it's countered or otherwise removed from the stack before resolving, Kiln Fiend 's triggered ability will still resolve successfully.
So, both creatures would get their bonuses, and the spell would be exiled(not resolve). That's great news! I made a deck based around this kind of thing, and was pummeling my opponent last night. He thought that Kiln Fiend's ability only happens when a spell resolves, and I tried to tell him casting and resolving are two differnt things.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 06, 2013 - 4:44AM
#4
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- Mogic Puzzle Master
- Plays Well With Others
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Casting and resolving are two (very) different things. But neither Nivmagus Elemental nor Kiln Fiend care about resolving.
DCI Level 2 Judge
"That's what's so stupid about the whole magic thing, you know," Rincewind said. "You spend twenty years learning the spell that makes nude virgins appear in your bedroom, and then you're so poisoned by quicksilver fumes and half-blind from reading old grimoires that you can't remember what happens next."
- Terry Pratchett, The Colour Of Magic
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