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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 8:18AM
#1
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Everyone seems to be overlooking Mill in standard. I took it upon myself to truly test out its power against all the Tier 1 standard decks out there. Not only me, but my opponents and friends were kind of a little blown away with its consitancy and "power". Given my unlimited pool of cards to choose from on cockatrice and many hours of deck testing and cutting cards and more testing, We have come up with a list that went 5-1 against Jund, 4-0 against Red Deck Wins, 5-3 against Aristocrats, and 6-2 against Esper Control. Main
4x Snapcaster Mage  3x Gloom Surgeon  2x Fog Bank  4x Arbor Elf  3x Thought Scour  4x Mind Sculpt  4x Jace, Memory Adept  4x Increasing Confusion  4x Mind Grind  4x Farseek  Land
4x Breeding Pool  4x Overgrown Tomb  2x Watery Grave  4x Drowned Catacomb  4x Hinterland Harbor  3x Nephalia Drownyard  3x Woodland Cemetary  We quickly realized this deck needed a speed boost. Splashing green gave us Arbor Elf and Farseek to ramp up to drop Jace early or to apply heavy pressure on our "x" spells. It was pretty obvious that popping out Jace on turn 3 and hitting them for 10 cards at least for the next 3 turns pretty much gave this deck the win for the few games that happened. and even when Jace didn't come out until late in the game or even at all, Ramping up to 6-7 lands and having 2 Arbor Elf  made Mind Grind a 30 card mill spell on average. Against an Aggro deck with a good opening hand, Gloom Surgeon was the answer. Haulting those thrag tusks from hitting our life the whole game and even killing them if double blocking with the surgeons. all the while I was continuing to drop the number of cards in my opponents deck. Nephalia Drownyard never swung a game in my favor but did hit for 6 cards in one game, but I know it's potential late game and its staying right where it's at. Finally it brings me to Snapcaster Mage , an auto include, numerous spells to choose from in my graveyard. flash back a Mind Grind after its hit for 5-6 land will empty a deck. and even the simple Mind Sculpt to finish off the opponent. What really sets this deck apart is it's answer to creatures and ramping to hit the mill early and hard. I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice or suggestions. I did alot of research and this build was the most consistant and effective. Thanks all!
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 9:22AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2006
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I find the lack of a single (or dual) Consuming Aberration  alt wincon... disturbing. Or is there a reason the deck doesn't run one? And how in heck's name do you win against RDW's onslaught with an average of 1 - 2 chump blockers (on top of Arbor Elf) who all die to Pillar of Flame  ? I'm genuinely interested in that, because I can't wrap my head around it.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 11:40AM
#3
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I find the lack of a single (or dual) Consuming Aberration alt wincon... disturbing.
Or is there a reason the deck doesn't run one?
And how in heck's name do you win against RDW's onslaught with an average of 1 - 2 chump blockers (on top of Arbor Elf) who all die to Pillar of Flame ?
I'm genuinely interested in that, because I can't wrap my head around it.
Me and a couple buddies tried it mroe creature heavy but it limited our mill and when my creatures are getting killed by spot removal or supreme verdicts, I would have hardly chipped away at their deck. and as for RDW, that was our biggest challenge, having a hellrider and two 2/2's coming in are intimidating. and we originally had it with just fog banks and the card fog itself and it was overwhelmed, we needed something that could withstand the onslaught, deal damage, and be cheap. gloom surgeon did the trick.. having 2-3 gloom surgeons on the board, I would double block a hellrider, or a boros reckoner, it dies, gloom surgeon survives. and basically having an indefinite blocker that also killed my opponents creatures completely stopped aggro, granted they got me down to 5-7 health around turn 4-5. but i recovered enough to stop the wave of 2/2's and get the win. and the burn my opponent used went torwards my life total when he was in the prime of his onslaught.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 12:53PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2010
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I get that mill is your wincon, but you have way too many mill spells that don't do anything to interact with the board. You'll still die to RDW and most midrange decks. Gloom Surgeon won't stop reckoner if you block him, since he just directs 2 noncombat damage at the gloom surgeon. Also pretty much any deck with red runs Searing Spear  right now, so the small number of surgeons/fog banks won't usually be much of a hindrance. Trample also becomes an issue. If you're determined to mill, I would take out a bunch of the slower mill cards and run more ways of intracting with the board. You really don't need much more than drownyards and jaces to be honest.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 2:55PM
#5
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This is why mill is bad if you try to build heavily around it. Mill has the same objective, as say a RDW deck, of killing your opponent. RDW needs to deal 20 damage and Mill needs to make their library zero. Between the starting 7 and several independent draws, you can say you have to mill around 40. Cards like Dream Twist  and Mind Sculpt help you get there but eventually you run out of ways to mill them or stop their creatures. Where as RDW is swinging with creatures and burn can go to their face or deal with the creatures. With the 1 damage takes 2 milled ratio, burn works out better. Now of course there are creatures that will mill but then you're going two different directions. You're dealing damage to try and mill them but at that point you can just kill them with damage and the milling was essentially wasted. Mill was my first deck and I tried really hard to make it competetive but this was just something I realized over time. tl;dr - 100% mill is too slow and a mix of Mill and Damage conflicts with itself. Also Mill is extremely unfun to play against. The only card I think could make an impact is Mind Grind but I think it would just go into an Esper Control shell like we have now and being an alt Win con.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 9:45PM
#6
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I'm far from good at this game and have just started taking it a lil bit more seriously and actually trying to play standard and win. So there are many other people on these forums that could help you alot better than me, but here's how I would go about this deck if I had the budget for it... Creatures Snapcaster Mage x4 Thragtusk  x4 Consuming Aberration x3 Spells Thought Scour x4 Fog  x4 Mind Sculpt x4 Farseek x4 Mind Grind x4 Planeswalkers Jace, Memory Adept x2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage  x2 Artifacts Sands of Delirium  x1 Lands Breeding Pool x4 Overgrown Tomb x4 Watery Grave x3 Hinterland Harbor x4 Woodland Cemetery  x4 Drowned Catacomb x2 Nephalia Drownyard x3 What the above posters says is true. When I very first started playing, I played a mill deck and I made the mistake you did and had WAAAY too much mill and not enough control. You cannot make a fast mill deck, you can try to speed it up at the cost of defense, but in the end it's still gonna be slow. So what seems to be the best way to run mill is to take that slowness and just roll with it. Go hard on the control, relax, and take your time with the mill. You probably wont find the excitment of a fast game, zoning in for the kill, but if you're looking for that, then you need to play a COMPLETELY different deck. I hope this helped and gave you some idea of what you should be looking at when trying to play mill.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 3:37PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2012
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Everyone seems to be overlooking Mill in standard. I took it upon myself to truly test out its power against all the Tier 1 standard decks out there. Not only me, but my opponents and friends were kind of a little blown away with its consitancy and "power". Given my unlimited pool of cards to choose from on cockatrice and many hours of deck testing and cutting cards and more testing, We have come up with a list that went 5-1 against Jund, 4-0 against Red Deck Wins, 5-3 against Aristocrats, and 6-2 against Esper Control.
Main
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Gloom Surgeon
2x Fog Bank
4x Arbor Elf
3x Thought Scour
4x Mind Sculpt
4x Jace, Memory Adept
4x Increasing Confusion
4x Mind Grind
4x Farseek
Land
4x Breeding Pool
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Watery Grave
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Hinterland Harbor
3x Nephalia Drownyard
3x Woodland Cemetary
We quickly realized this deck needed a speed boost. Splashing green gave us Arbor Elf and Farseek to ramp up to drop Jace early or to apply heavy pressure on our "x" spells. It was pretty obvious that popping out Jace on turn 3 and hitting them for 10 cards at least for the next 3 turns pretty much gave this deck the win for the few games that happened. and even when Jace didn't come out until late in the game or even at all, Ramping up to 6-7 lands and having 2 Arbor Elf made Mind Grind a 30 card mill spell on average. Against an Aggro deck with a good opening hand, Gloom Surgeon was the answer. Haulting those thrag tusks from hitting our life the whole game and even killing them if double blocking with the surgeons. all the while I was continuing to drop the number of cards in my opponents deck. Nephalia Drownyard never swung a game in my favor but did hit for 6 cards in one game, but I know it's potential late game and its staying right where it's at. Finally it brings me to Snapcaster Mage , an auto include, numerous spells to choose from in my graveyard. flash back a Mind Grind after its hit for 5-6 land will empty a deck. and even the simple Mind Sculpt to finish off the opponent.
What really sets this deck apart is it's answer to creatures and ramping to hit the mill early and hard. I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice or suggestions. I did alot of research and this build was the most consistant and effective. Thanks all!
Cockatrice != real testing.
Beating a hobo up with a baseball bat doesn't make me a master swordsman.
I don't have an egosig because I'd rather my ideas be judged on their merits than on mine. Catpoints: Spoiler:
Show
What are catpoints?
A way of measuring how much I love you.
How do I get catpoints?
1: participate in my forum games/contests.
2: make awesome posts.
3: destroy Carthage.
What can I do with catpoints?
You can ask favors of me. I may or may not agree to your favor, depending on how big the favor is and how many catpoints you have.
Who has how many catpoints?
shadowchu: 100
Islands: 100
Niche: 50
mrindigo: 50
kips: 50
Rstnme: 25
Jman: 25
everyone else: 0
Keeperofmanynames: -100
Morgothra: -100
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3 months ago ::
Feb 23, 2013 - 3:10AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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Beating a hobo up with a baseball bat doesn't make me a master swordsman.
How do you know? Have you even tried?
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3 months ago ::
Feb 23, 2013 - 9:59PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2012
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Beating a hobo up with a baseball bat doesn't make me a master swordsman.
How do you know? Have you even tried?
As a scientific mind, I never make assertions that I have not already proven with experimentation.
I don't have an egosig because I'd rather my ideas be judged on their merits than on mine. Catpoints: Spoiler:
Show
What are catpoints?
A way of measuring how much I love you.
How do I get catpoints?
1: participate in my forum games/contests.
2: make awesome posts.
3: destroy Carthage.
What can I do with catpoints?
You can ask favors of me. I may or may not agree to your favor, depending on how big the favor is and how many catpoints you have.
Who has how many catpoints?
shadowchu: 100
Islands: 100
Niche: 50
mrindigo: 50
kips: 50
Rstnme: 25
Jman: 25
everyone else: 0
Keeperofmanynames: -100
Morgothra: -100
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 2:13AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2008
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Beating a hobo up with a baseball bat doesn't make me a master swordsman.
How do you know? Have you even tried?
As a scientific mind, I never make assertions that I have not already proven with experimentation.
PRICELESS
and about the deck ElvenSoma is right, sadly.
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