Feb 16, 2013 -- 1:33PM, zammm wrote:

I don't think temporary flight really accomplishes much that green can't already accomplish. Offensively, green already has access to Spire Tracer -type evasion, and defensively it has access to reach. So green can already do either half of that effect independently; the only difference this would make is the flexibility of being able to do one or the other as needed instead of only one.

...What purpose would printing this effect serve?

Honestly, I prefer temporary flight over cards like Spire Tracer , even if only because Spire Tracer just seems really, really stupid. I mean, they literally used the reminder text for flying, but removed the only part of the ability (i.e. actually having the keyword) that allows for flying hate.

The solution to "green doesn't get flying" really shouldn't be "give it flying anyway" =/

Feb 16, 2013 -- 1:43PM, bubba0077 wrote:

Feb 16, 2013 -- 1:21PM, bay_falconer wrote:

Then why does Maro think green getting flying would break the game?

Colors need to have clear identities, both for flavor and playability reasons. I'm amazed at how many people still don't understand this. #ColorPie4Life

That's understandable, and Imma let you finish, but it means things like this that compromise the "each color cannot answer a permanent type" rule . It also obscures things, like whenever a card like Savage Twister is printed, implying red can't damage nonflyers, something obviously not true .

And what is contrary to green's flavor about flying?

I don't want green to have cards that grant flying, though. That is contrary to green's flavor.

Feb 16, 2013 -- 2:51PM, HairlessThoctar wrote:

Actually, green's had flying as recently as Skinshifter and Hornet Queen .

To be fair, Skinshifter's more of a Doran, the Siege Tower bomb.

Feb 17, 2013 -- 7:26PM, bubba0077 wrote:

If any color can do everything, why have colors? Color identity is necessary to (a) create tension between mana consistency and mono-color weakness (b) keep the game interesting by increasing variance in play. I'm not sure how you can say eliminating that doesn't hurt the game.

That's the slippery slope argument right there, though. We're not saying green should have removal . The only one saying green should is you.

Actually, I'm inclined to agree with the original poster on the grounds of Skinshifter being such a beautiful example of this working. But what makes Skinshifter work so well is that the effect is built into the creature, as opposed to being a spell all it's own. Artifacts, Charms and Creatures that grant temporary Flight in are playing to 's flavor without making a "flying color", the effects are accessory, and as with situations like Hybrid cards, I think this makes it okay to tastefully bleed the colors. But to be fair, there are lots of effects that temporarily grant Reach or Evasion which by many accounts are "the same thing", because it's doing the same thing in a different way- but likened to Horsemanship, it's hamstringing the elegance of design.

This doesn't mean I think the effect should be super commonplace either, but I happen to think that Reach is due for retirement as a mainstay mechanic, and should be replaced with a more comprehensive blocking mechanic. Which would mean that that instead of " hates flying", the idea would be " adapts to flying as needed" (That and it would allow bayfalconer to make an even bigger waste of forumspace about how much he hates for getting to be good)

Not the point.
The point is you turn every thread you touch into a discussion of how stupid flying hate is, and its getting real damned annoying.