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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:09AM #1
jacobsldr
Date Joined: Dec 14, 2008
Posts: 131
I notice Seance doesn't give your token haste.   Does this matter since the token is created before upkeep?
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:12AM #2
cyphern
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2003
Posts: 17,752
You're right, Seance doesn't give the tokens haste, and this does matter. Since you have not controlled the token continuously since the start of the turn, the token cannot attack or use abilities.

1/22/2011     The copy doesn't have haste (unless the card it's copying has haste) and usually won't be able to attack.


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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:13AM #3
ikegami
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 2,258
Please autocard.
[c]Seance[/c] ⇒ Seance

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:18AM #4
ikegami
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 2,258

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:09AM, jacobsldr wrote:

Does this matter since the token is created before upkeep?


This makes no sense. Not only is it created after your upkeep has started, that doesn't matter in the least.

A creature will *always* have summoning sickness when it enters the battelfield, and it will have it until the start of your next turn.

Seance will trigger on your opponent's turns. If you choose to put the token on the battlefield then, it will have summoning sickness until your next turn starts. On that turn, you cannot activate any abilities subject to summoning sickness it might gain. If Seance didn't exile it at the end of that turn, on your turn, you would be able to attack with it and activate any abilities it might have.

Seance will also trigger on your turn. If you choose to put the token on the battlefield then, it will have summoning sickness until your next turn starts. On that turn and on your opponent's turn, you cannot attack with it, and you cannot activate any abilities subject to summoning sickness it might gain.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:28AM #5
Strago_Magus
Date Joined: Oct 9, 2009
Posts: 1,133

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:18AM, ikegami wrote:

Seance will trigger on your opponent's turns. If you choose to put the token on the battlefield then, it will have summoning sickness until your next turn starts. On that turn, you cannot activate any abilities it might gain.



Incorrect.  You can activate any abilities that creature has that do not include the tap symbol in the activation cost.

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:18AM, ikegami wrote:

On your turn, you will be able to attack with it and activate any abilities it might have.



Incorrect.  If you create the token during your opponent's turn, you'll have to sacrifice the token during your opponent's end step.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:31AM #6
FezzHead
Date Joined: Dec 13, 2011
Posts: 1,788

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:18AM, ikegami wrote:

Seance will trigger on your opponent's turns. If you choose to put the token on the battlefield then, it will have summoning sickness until your next turn starts. On that turn, you cannot activate any abilities it might gain. On your turn, you will be able to attack with it and activate any abilities it might have.

Seance will also trigger on your turn. If you choose to put the token on the battlefield then, it will have summoning sickness until your next turn starts. On that turn and on your opponent's turn, you cannot attack with it, and you cannot activate any abilities it might gain.



However, since the token is exiled at the beginning of the next end step, it will usually be long gone by the time your next turn starts.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:38AM #7
Enigma256
Date Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 14,027
while on the topic of seance
if you populate the token you will not have to exile it
proud member of the 2011 community team
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 11:41AM #8
ikegami
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 2,258

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:28AM, Strago_Magus wrote:

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:18AM, ikegami wrote:

Seance will trigger on your opponent's turns. If you choose to put the token on the battlefield then, it will have summoning sickness until your next turn starts. On that turn, you cannot activate any abilities it might gain.



Incorrect.  You can activate any abilities that creature has that do not include the tap symbol in the activation cost.


Clarified that bit.

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:28AM, Strago_Magus wrote:

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:18AM, ikegami wrote:

On your turn, you will be able to attack with it and activate any abilities it might have.



Incorrect.  If you create the token during your opponent's turn, you'll have to sacrifice the token during your opponent's end step.


I missed that it exiled the token. Clarified that bit too.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 12:15PM #9
2goth4U
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 9,415

Feb 15, 2013 -- 11:09AM, jacobsldr wrote:

Does this matter since the token is created before upkeep?


Reading is tech.

At the beginning of each upkeep, you may exile target creature card from your graveyard. If you do, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of that card except it's a Spirit in addition to its other types. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.


Seance triggers as the upkeep starts and the ability doesn't enter the stack and resolve until some time later during that upkeep.

So the token is created during the upkeep, not before and the fact that it doesn't have haste is relevant because it won't be able to attack nor tap/untap to pay costs of or because it has summoning sickness

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2013 - 12:52PM #10
scampb
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2009
Posts: 226
In reading the card it says to exile the token at the beginning of the next end step.  Does that mean if you create the token during your opponent's upkeep, on his/her end step of that turn, since it is the 'next' end step, the token is exiled?  Or does it mean on the next turns end step?
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