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Switch to Forum Live View A Detektor Blip: Squid Ink
4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 8:35PM #41
KeeperofManyNames
Date Joined: Dec 12, 2008
Posts: 10,584
In case anyone's curious, Black also has quite a number of random cards, but almost (although not entirely) exclusively in the form of random discard. Oh, and Green has been picking up some randomness recently in the form of random graveyard recursion, weirdly.

But yeah, white and blue seem to be all about consistency, and even black and green get random mechanics most frequently when they are paired with red.

Gatherer is basically the coolest thing ever and I love it dearly. 
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 8:40PM #42
HairlessThoctar
Date Joined: Dec 27, 2009
Posts: 7,624
@Keeper
The myriad of random recursion effects in Innistrad were more to make gameplay less repetitive than anything. 
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 9:25PM #43
razorborne
  • Corporate Slave
Date Joined: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 19,621

Feb 13, 2013 -- 8:27PM, POSValkir1 wrote:

So...at worst: You ignored the part about blue making opponents look foolish (which was a weak argument) and at best: you confirmed Detektor's arguments that flavor is based on set design.


So all Detektor has to do is design a set which reinforces blue randomness...or multi-colored randomness.  WIN THIS ARGUMENT Det!  



none of my points had to do with flavor. one was a cycle, meaning that it containing the cycle mechanic is unsurprising and not precedent-setting, one was from a set so old it has no relevance in color pie discussions, and one uses it to a blue mechanical end, like a slow telepathy . if it let them choose, they'd just keep revealing the same card, and it can't let you choose without showing you their whole hand, so it does it at random because that's the only way to make it work towards a blue goal. which, again, this doesn't do. none of that is flavor.

on top of that, blue doesn't like to make you look dumb, it likes to make itself look smart. it doesn't get that by winning a die roll.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 14, 2013 - 4:16AM #44
Flopfoot
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2007
Posts: 7,981
Polymorph is meant to be blue. Blue turns things into other things.

If it wasn't meant to be blue, they would have put it into its proper color by now - they're not afraid to do that. At the very least, they wouldn't be reinforcing this ability by printing new cards like Rapid Hybridization .

MaRo even said that he thought Beast Within should have been blue.


Now it might be true that Grip of Chaos is the only real precedent for its own ability. But I would argue against the idea of putting the entire concept of randomness into a single color. It is a very big concept, even if it only appears on a small number of cards. (The reason for that is because there's enough randomness in the rules of the game like shuffling your deck that we don't need more on the cards themselves. You could argue that Divination is a random effect since at the start of the game you randomly determined what those two cards would be!) If they did decide to put more random effects in the game, they would put them into more colors ( Tavern Swindler was a good example of how you don't have to be red to flip coins), and random effects that had to do with targetting of spells would be in the spell colors (blue and red).

Randomness can be used in a clever way even if it's normally flavored as stupid goblins taking risks. You can say that "the worst that could happen by this risk is less likely and/or is still not as bad as what would happen if I didn't take the risk." That's what players do in Magic all the time, even blue players, but you trying to say that their cards can't do that?
Another pretty random ability is clash, but that appears in all colors. 
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 14, 2013 - 4:33AM #45
dtolle
Date Joined: Dec 24, 2012
Posts: 959
I agree with flopfoot. Polymorph was printed in M10 and they made Mass Polymorph in M11. Scrambleverse seems to imply that it should have been red. But it wasn't. The red version of this ability is literally Grip of Chaos .Except Grip is ALL abilities, ALL players, ALL the time. This ability is THAT creature that I get to choose. I have control of which creatures or etc. get this TEMPORARY ability. Blue mimics arrest poorly or temporarily with Detain. Why couldn't blue get chaos temporarily as well. I also agree that shoehorning an entire mechanic/theme to a single color should be avoided. Its like saying Griselbrand or Necropotence should be blue because they deal with card draw.

Oh and Frenetic escaped everyones view? Frenetic Efreet and Frenetic Sliver were both blue red and dealt with luck. Also see Stitch in Time , Squee's Revenge , and Odds . blue can't be that anti-luck/random... 
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 14, 2013 - 6:34AM #46
POSValkir1
Date Joined: Oct 16, 2012
Posts: 1,805
Flavor Argument: Spoiler: Show
Ok, I came into work all prepped and Flopfoot and Dtolle took away most of my steam.
@Dtolle - I avoided the Efreet's because they contain red, which I thought would derail the argument and overshadow the pure blue random cards.  They do set a precedent for leaking randomness into blue.
@Flopfoot - Right on the money about not shoehorning effects into colors.  I DO think that colors should have an identity though, randomness in blue should be different than randomness in red.  Much like card draw is free in blue and costs life in black.


Actual Critique: Spoiler: Show
Ok, so this suffers from a gameplay problem:  its a nightmare to play against.  Given that its an Instant, this becomes supremely annoying when cast in response to a massive Storm count.

I'm not saying its a bad play, just that its not a fun play and it significantly delays the game.
Break the Card:  A great contest run by Dilleux_Lepaire in the Cards and Combo's forums!

Support the Card:  An homage to Break the Card I run on the You Make the Card forums!

Support the Card winners:Spoiler: Show

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