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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 10:38AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2012
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Based on the wording of the ability, I thought you intended the spells to be cast as if they had Flash when you use the Avenge cost. Since it uses "When" instead of "If". Plus I don't think they'd ever be playable otherwise, 'cause there aren't many things that would deal damage to you on your own turn.
Of course the other problem is that triggered abilities (When/Whenever/At etc) can never trigger from a hidden zone. Miracle only works the way it does because it triggers off of the reveal, not the card draw itself (although I really don't recommend trying to copy Miracle, there are much easier ways) Alternate wording that should work, with no triggers required:
Avenge (You may cast this spell for its avenge cost as though it had flash as long as a single source dealt N or more damage to you this turn.)
I didn't know that. Can that rule can be changed/ broken/ignored? The suggested wording, while the shortest wording possible, seems less intuitive, less flavourful, and simply less sexy than the new one suggested by IceMetalMan.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 11:21AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2007
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I don't see any way to ignore the rule. Triggered abilities go on the stack and then they resolve after all players pass priority, but you can't just have an undefined ability sitting on the stack with no visible rules or effects on it. If you want it to work, you need to kludge in something like "You may reveal this card from your hand as a source deals damage to you" which just adds an extra step that's even less intuitive. I suppose a worldwide change to the rules could fix it, if it was really a huge issue. Flavorwise, you lose the requirement that you need to "Avenge" yourself at the exact moment that the damage happens or not at all, but I don't think that matters much. The Traps in Zendikar had similar gameplay, where you could cast them later in the turn even long after the trap had been "sprung", and I don't think the flavor suffered one bit. It would also add to the flavor though if you made more cards that could do interesting stuff post-combat. The Traps were very strongly linked in a "thing happens, thing-relevant trap effect happens" way, so maybe the Avengers could be similar. Vanilla creatures with Avenge costs aren't the best candidates. Things like Avenging Arrow  or Assassinate  could be cool though. Maybe a way to recover lost creatures from the graveyard, or finish off wounded creatures. Just spitting out ideas.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 12:03PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2010
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Seems fine.
Though flavor wants it more in red, followed by white. Black begins with "I am not in any way weaker than you! I don't need to do things that exploit my own weakness!"
Yeah, I know, Xanatos Gambit. But still...
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
----
Autocard is your friend.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] = Lightning Bolt 
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3 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 1:13PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2012
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Seems fine.
Though flavor wants it more in red, followed by white. Black begins with "I am not in any way weaker than you! I don't need to do things that exploit my own weakness!"
Yeah, I know, Xanatos Gambit. But still...
A) "You may 1B rather than pay Bitterblood Witch's mana cost if you took 3 or more damage from a single source this turn." Don't know how to give it flash, though. Perhaps: "Bitterheart Witch has flash if you took 3 or more damage this turn."
B) You may cast this spell for its avenge cost as though it had flash as long as a single source dealt 3 or more damage to you this turn.
C) Bitterheart Witch has flash and costs 3 less to play as long as you took 3 or more damage this turn from a single source.
This is really hard.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 1:24PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2010
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Flash is more of a blue/green thing. It's only used in other colors for blink cards, combat tricks, and the like on legs.
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
----
Autocard is your friend.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] = Lightning Bolt
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3 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 1:31PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2012
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Flash is more of a blue/green thing. It's only used in other colors for blink cards, combat tricks, and the like on legs.
Flash is a necessity here simply for the technology (?) it offers.
Stop being annoying, bay falconer. I don't like it. I never know if you're trolling or not.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 1:33PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2007
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Flash is more of a blue/green thing. It's only used in other colors for blink cards, combat tricks, and the like on legs.
I think it's justifiable if flash is required for the mechanic to function usefully.
(PS. I don't know if bay falconer is being annoying elsewhere, but I don't see how this particular comment is annoying on its own...)
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3 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 1:41PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2012
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Flash is more of a blue/green thing. It's only used in other colors for blink cards, combat tricks, and the like on legs.
I think it's justifiable if flash is required for the mechanic to function usefully.
(PS. I don't know if bay falconer is being annoying elsewhere, but I don't see how this particular comment is annoying on its own...)
He's annoyed in the past.
This time, I find it hard to understand how exactly he came to believe this was strongly out of the W/R/B colour pie and I had no idea how flash was commonly used. But like I said, I don't know if he's being annoying on purpose or not.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 5:03PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2012
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The Traps in Zendikar had similar gameplay, where you could cast them later in the turn even long after the trap had been "sprung", and I don't think the flavor suffered one bit.
It would also add to the flavor though if you made more cards that could do interesting stuff post-combat. The Traps were very strongly linked in a "thing happens, thing-relevant trap effect happens" way, so maybe the Avengers could be similar. Vanilla creatures with Avenge costs aren't the best candidates. Things like Avenging Arrow or Assassinate could be cool though. Maybe a way to recover lost creatures from the graveyard, or finish off wounded creatures. Just spitting out ideas.
I prefer the mechanic to create battles for control and changes in the dominant player, which is done best with creatures. However, everyone is of course
welcome to create their own cards with the mechanic. Anyway, I think we can declare this thread closed, unless anyone has the perfect solution to the wording problem.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 7:40PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2012
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With regards to issue of flash, most cards with flash have it to facilitate some effect of the card. White, blue, and green actually have around the same amount of flash, though blue and green are the two colors that usually grant flash, but plenty of abilities in all colors allow you to cast at unusual times in all five colors. Look at miracle, you can cast sorceries with it during your draw phase. I don't think granting it flash is too terribly out of colors.
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