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5 months ago ::
Feb 07, 2013 - 1:57AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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honestly, the dependancy rule in the layers system doesn't make sense to me. that is, i wouldn't be able to spot it, unless for EVERY time two effects apply in the same layer/sub-layer, i ask myself "is this a dependancy?" by mechanically going through the definition of a dependancy and asking if it applies in this case. so what i'm looking for is if anyone knows of examples of dependancies? if i read enough of them, i'm thinking i'll be able to spot them far more easily. the only examples i can find are from this cranialinsertion article: www.mtgsalvation.com/836-cranial-inserti...the two examples there are: 1. Blood Moon  and Urborg,Tomb of Yawmoth  and 2. Dranlu's Crusade  and Conspiracy  anyone know of any others? PS (i still don't know if i'm supposed to be posting questions like this in this forum, or in the Rules Theory and Templating forum.)
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5 months ago ::
Feb 07, 2013 - 2:27AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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Enchanted Evening  and Opalescence  . The later is dependent on the former so long as there would be at least one more non-aura permanent without EE. Life and Limb  and Conspiracy set to saproling. LaL is dependent on Conpiracy so long as there would be at least one non-saproling creature under your control without Conspiracy. Conspiracy is dependent on LaL so long as there would be at least one non-creature forest under your control without LaL. Those two can form a dependency loop. An enchanted Thran Golem  with Humility  out. The Golem's power/toughness boosting and ability granting ability is removed by Humility, so it is dependent on Humility.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 07, 2013 - 2:42AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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rezzahan, thanks for the examples.
for some reason, even though i can process so much else from the comp rules even with a cold and a headache... dependancy still is hard for my brain to process. i'll really have to sit down with this one and think it through carefully. (maybe when i have more sleep or my cold is gone!)
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5 months ago ::
Feb 07, 2013 - 7:08AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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honestly, the dependancy rule in the layers system doesn't make sense to me.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 07, 2013 - 7:35AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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All islands are plains. All nonbasic lands are islands. Obviously, the first effect would be dependent on the second because applying the second would change the set of objects that the first would apply to. Yixlid Jailer  and Necrotic Ooze  Ooze has to wait for Jailer because Jailer changes what Ooze's ability would do. The tricky ones are things like Humility and Loxodon Warhammer  where there is no dependency (unless Warhammer somehow became a creature).
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5 months ago ::
Feb 07, 2013 - 8:31AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2008
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Let's go layer by layer: Layer 1: Don't look for dependencies here, there aren't any. Layer 2: An aura with "you control enchanted thing" depends on an effect that changes the control of the aura, because that effect will change what "you" means. Example: Confiscate  #1 enchanting Confiscate#2. Confiscate#2 depends on Confiscate#1. Layer 3: No dependencies here with real cards that I'm aware of. Layer 4: There are tons of dependencies here. An effect that says "All X become Y" is dependent on an effect that turns a non-X into an X; it's also dependent on an effect that turns an X into a non-X. Example: March of the Machines  depends on Mycosynth Lattice  . A layer 4 effect from a static ability generated by the rules text of a land is dependent on a layer 4 effect that turns that land into a basic land (thus removing the ability). Example: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth  depends on Blood Moon . Layer 5: No dependencies here with real cards that I'm aware of. Layer 6: A layer 6 effect from an ability of an object depends on a layer 6 effect that removes that ability from that object. Example: If Humble  resolved targeting Winged Sliver  , Winged Sliver depends on Humble. An effect that gives an ability on object#1 to object#2 depends on an effect that gives or removes abilities from object#1. Example: Flight  on Player A's Hill Giant  . Player B controls Escaped Shapeshifter  . Escaped Shapeshifter depends on Flight. Sublayer 7a: An effect from a CDA that uses the power of Object#1 to calculate the power of Object#2 depends on an effect from a CDA that sets the power of Object#1. Example: As Sutured Ghoul  enters the battlefield, Soulless One  is exiled. Sutured Ghoul depends on Soulless One. Sublayers 7b, 7c, 7d, 7e: A grand total of zero dependencies.
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