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Jan 31, 2013 -- 10:12AM, Selaphane wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 9:01AM, dj_btrue wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 7:21AM, Selaphane wrote:

All the decks mentioned already are good picks, but I'd put DP above them all. Seems like everytime I play against it (which is always, I refuse to use this deck ever again after unlocking it all) the person just empties their hand as quick as possible, it's just too straight forward to do anything except play every card in your hand that's available...

Wow, completely disagree. Some of the hardest decisions I've made in this game have been with DP. When you have no creatures to defend your self every decision is a huge one. I'll admit that bad DP pilots might just empty their hand but that is a terrible way to approach the deck and leads to many losses.

Your experiences still don't derive from the fact that the deck has 1 win con 95% of the time, just mill them ASAP and win, that's all it is almost every single match in 1v1, in 2HG it's obviously a bit different but in 1v1 it's all about that turbo-mill, which takes very little thought and interaction IMO.

Never played turbo-mill and still got rather good results. It's consideraby more risky then with most decks, but there is also more fun)

Jan 31, 2013 -- 10:26AM, Selaphane wrote:

Counterspells and bounce would like to argue that the deck is a little more than just mill/mill/mill/mill.

2 counters and 6 bounces (2 of which are creatures) total, all there for the same purpose. To delay the inevitable. Honestly, how often does this deck win with creatures? Unless you get a lucky Body Double or some Jace's Phantasm s to stick you're really just mill/mill/mill/mill all game.

3 counters)

All my mill cards: 1 tome scour, 2 mind sculpt, 1 archive trap, 2 chancellors, 2 crabs. As a rule at least one of them is in initial hand with at least 1 fantom. So it's relatively easy to have 5/5 phantom at turn 4 (maximum). Main task - to defend it. Yes, it isn't simple. But - at least for me - proved to be effective.

Jan 31, 2013 -- 11:04AM, Selaphane wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 10:43AM, falclon wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 10:26AM, Selaphane wrote:

Counterspells and bounce would like to argue that the deck is a little more than just mill/mill/mill/mill.

2 counters and 6 bounces (2 of which are creatures) total, all there for the same purpose. To delay the inevitable. Honestly, how often does this deck win with creatures? Unless you get a lucky Body Double or some Jace's Phantasm s to stick you're really just mill/mill/mill/mill all game.

3 counters)

All my mill cards: 1 tome scour, 2 mind sculpt, 1 archive trap, 2 chancellors, 2 crabs. As a rule at least one of them is in initial hand with at least 1 fantom. So it's relatively easy to have 5/5 phantom at turn 4 (maximum). Main task - to defend it. Yes, it isn't simple. But - at least for me - proved to be effective.

That's still basing your entire strategy around 1 maybe 2 creatures all game, (3 or 4 if you're really lucky) which is hardly ever enough to outrace pretty much any deck in the damage race. I don't see how anything not mill would be remotely effective in 1v1, but I guess this discussion isn't about that. Basically as I see it, you just use every single mill card in your hand, then drop your 1 or 2 maybe 3 creatures and try to stall til you get enough to mill them out or miraculously damage them to death, not exactly difficult or brain flexing.

I'd actually have to say this takes 2nd then, seeing as PI is really just play creature, attack, more creatures, attack. But I won't deny mill has the biggest luck draws going for it....

Jan 31, 2013 -- 10:12AM, Selaphane wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 9:01AM, dj_btrue wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 7:21AM, Selaphane wrote:

All the decks mentioned already are good picks, but I'd put DP above them all. Seems like everytime I play against it (which is always, I refuse to use this deck ever again after unlocking it all) the person just empties their hand as quick as possible, it's just too straight forward to do anything except play every card in your hand that's available...

Wow, completely disagree. Some of the hardest decisions I've made in this game have been with DP. When you have no creatures to defend your self every decision is a huge one. I'll admit that bad DP pilots might just empty their hand but that is a terrible way to approach the deck and leads to many losses.

Your experiences still don't derive from the fact that the deck has 1 win con 95% of the time, just mill them ASAP and win, that's all it is almost every single match in 1v1, in 2HG it's obviously a bit different but in 1v1 it's all about that turbo-mill, which takes very little thought and interaction IMO.

Don't most of the decks have a win-con of damage 100% of the time? 

Why all the hate for DP? Several times people have outright quit because they think that DP is a "noob deck". I just don't understand it. A mill deck is just like a burn deck or an aggro deck except that instead of targeting your 20 hit point life total i'm targeting your library (which can be close to 80 cards sometimes). Mill isn't auto-pilot and certainly isn't a noob deck. 

Knowing when to counter, when to bounce, when to take the hit, when to chump, and even when to mill is not easy street. (several times i've managed to trick people into dying against my phantasm with an instant Thought Scour milling my 10th card.) Remember that every turn a mill deck is countering or bouncing they're not actually milling you. Those people you describe as just auto-emptying their hand sound ridiculous. A good blue deck and a good mill deck have to really time their plays right since they don't have the creatures of burn to waste. 

My theory on mill hate is that people hate to see good cards thrown away. Certainyly this can be frusting but no deck is built on only a couple cards. If you construct your deck correctly then mill isn't going to hurt you that much. Sure some of your good cards might be milled away but so might mana flood or some of your sub par cards. Many times the tubro-mill build will actually give you more cards then you normally would have. Many times I love playing against a mill deck since they often end up helping me more then themselves or their teammate.

Jan 31, 2013 -- 11:38AM, Forehand0 wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 10:12AM, Selaphane wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 9:01AM, dj_btrue wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 7:21AM, Selaphane wrote:

All the decks mentioned already are good picks, but I'd put DP above them all. Seems like everytime I play against it (which is always, I refuse to use this deck ever again after unlocking it all) the person just empties their hand as quick as possible, it's just too straight forward to do anything except play every card in your hand that's available...

Wow, completely disagree. Some of the hardest decisions I've made in this game have been with DP. When you have no creatures to defend your self every decision is a huge one. I'll admit that bad DP pilots might just empty their hand but that is a terrible way to approach the deck and leads to many losses.

Your experiences still don't derive from the fact that the deck has 1 win con 95% of the time, just mill them ASAP and win, that's all it is almost every single match in 1v1, in 2HG it's obviously a bit different but in 1v1 it's all about that turbo-mill, which takes very little thought and interaction IMO.

Don't most of the decks have a win-con of damage 100% of the time? 

Why all the hate for DP? Several times people have outright quit because they think that DP is a "noob deck". I just don't understand it. A mill deck is just like a burn deck or an aggro deck except that instead of targeting your 20 hit point life total i'm targeting your library (which can be close to 80 cards sometimes). Mill isn't auto-pilot and certainly isn't a noob deck. 

Knowing when to counter, when to bounce, when to take the hit, when to chump, and even when to mill is not easy street. (several times i've managed to trick people into dying against my phantasm with an instant Thought Scour milling my 10th card.) Remember that every turn a mill deck is countering or bouncing they're not actually milling you. Those people you describe as just auto-emptying their hand sound ridiculous. A good blue deck and a good mill deck have to really time their plays right since they don't have the creatures of burn to waste. 

My theory on mill hate is that people hate to see good cards thrown away. Certainyly this can be frusting but no deck is built on only a couple cards. If you construct your deck correctly then mill isn't going to hurt you that much. Sure some of your good cards might be milled away but so might mana flood or some of your sub par cards. Many times the tubro-mill build will actually give you more cards then you normally would have. Many times I love playing against a mill deck since they often end up helping me more then themselves or their teammate.

First of all, I'm the only person in this thread "hating" on mill, don't get your panties in a bunch. Second, I definitely don't quit out pretty much ever when I'm playing against it, honestly I think it's the worst deck in the game as far as 1v1 goes, I lose to it maybe 1 in 10 games. I just see the same thing almost every single time I play against. (Even 60 carders do this most of the time)

1. Use all mill cards asap
2. Drop your few creatures
3. Stall for a bit with the limited bounce/counters (sometimes this comes before step 2)
4. Quit out when your hand is empty and my library is still half-full and you have no creatures left

I mean I'm sure I'm simplifying some things a bit, but this is honestly what happens 90% of the time I play against it, which leads me to believe it's the most auto-pilotey deck in the game. Mill, creatures, stall, mill a bit more, quit. And even the 1/10 games that I do lose against it, it's usually because of a turn 5 (or 4) Traumatize followed by a couple more mill cards to finish me off. It just seems so straight-forward and too easy to pilot, hence the reason I can't stand playing with or against it, not because it's actually any good. (It's terrible)