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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 8:50AM
#1
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It's been a while, Rules Forum. I havent had a conflict like this come up until i put my UB Zombies back onto the field, so i consult the hive. I have geralf's messenger  on the field. I evil twin  the messenger. The twin dies for some reason. -does the twin receive the undying trigger? -does the twin return and let me copy something else? -does it still have the +1/+1 or does it go through a state change before that (bit of a devils advocate question, i highly doubt this, but if it were to, its nicely breakable)
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 8:51AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2001
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Yes, yes and yes.
When evil twin dies, it had undying and will return with a +1/+1 counter and give you the option to copy something that is currently on the battlefield.
MTG Rules Advisor
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 8:52AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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Yes to all questions, and the returning Twin gets a +1/+1 counter.
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 8:55AM
#4
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Excellent, thank you. I needed this to make sure its not disputed when i do it or so that no one mistakenly thinks its a new creature and that it doesnt get the counter.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 8:56AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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since the copy is optional you can even have it return as a 1/1 Evil Twin 
proud member of the 2011 community team
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 8:56AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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Technically, it is a new creature...
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 11:00AM
#7
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So at no time does evil twin stop being the creature it used to be in copying a new creature on the field? I'm getting this feeling that undying would trigger but upon the twin becoming a new creature it would lose track of it..
Apologies in advance for beating an undying horse if I'm wrong.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 11:04AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2011
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Evil Twin stops being a Geralf's Messenger  when it dies. However, undying triggers from the battlefield, so the fact that it doesn't have undying in the graveyard doesn't matter. Likewise, undying can find the new object that Evil Twin became as it entered the graveyard, even though it's no longer a copy of Geralf's Messenger. As the Evil Twin re-enters the battlefield, you will again be able to choose a creature to copy. The Evil Twin will get an additional +1/+1 counter regardless of what you choose to copy or if you copy anything at all.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 11:11AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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Undying triggers based on the state immediately prior to Twin dying. The trigger will track the card to the graveyard and lock on to it there, if it leaves the graveyard  before the trigger resolves, it will lose track of it and be unable to move it to the battlefield. So it was a game object on the field, then it was a new game object (tracked by the trigger) in the graveyard and finally the trigger will make it a new game object on the field (with a +1/+1 counter)
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 11:15AM
#10
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Ahh i understand. So much for infinitely sacking him i guess. =)
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