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Xman-96

Date Joined: Nov 21, 2012

Posts: 29

Okay, so my friend and I are talking and we are trying to figure out why the shocklands are better than the dual lands printed in M13? Is it because they can be fetched by cards like Farseek

? Is it just because they have the land type on them?

Enigma256

Date Joined: Jul 28, 2010

Posts: 13,857

they can be found by Farseek

and other cards

they come into play untapped whenever you need them to
they have land types, which can matter for cards like Mutilate

or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

proud member of the 2011 community team

bay_falconer

Date Joined: Oct 12, 2010

Posts: 9,710

And paying life isn't that important. You lose the game in only four ways:

1) As a state-based action when you have 0 or less life. Note that few players have exactly 0 life. Also note that unlike 2, there's no card that says "If an opponent has less than 20 life, he or she loses 1 life."
2) As a state-based action when you have 10 or more poison counters. Note that having even one poison counter can

. (And all manner of Giant Growth

-type effects when a creature with infect isn't blocked.)
3) As a triggered ability when you are forced to draw a card (either from the draw step or from an effect in the game) but your library is empty.
4) As the result of a particular spell or ability. Note that some spells or abilities give their controllers ways to lose the game, and some remove ways to lose the game from one or both players.

So, relevant to this, even if 1 is your opponent's endgame (and it usually is), the game doesn't care until you have a life total less than or equal to 0. (Obviously some

cards

care about life totals, but my point remains.)

Jun 27, 2012 -- 12:04AM, GM_Champion wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.

----
Autocard is your friend.

[c]Lightning Bolt[/c]

= Lightning Bolt

Nyktos

Date Joined: Oct 11, 2007

Posts: 3,338

I'd say it's about fifty-fifty between two reasons. First, you have control over whether they start out tapped or not. If you draw a hand of all M10 lands, you're going to have a very slow start. It you draw a hand of all shocklands, you may take a bunch of damage but you'll be able to cast your spells on time -- or, if you'd rather have the slow start to preserve your life total, you can choose to do that. Second, they have basic land types. This is the reason that they're the multilands of choice in Modern (where Zendikar's fetchlands

are legal and the combination of the two types of lands basically gives you perfect colour fixing) but it's also relevant in Standard with cards like, as you said, Farseek

and, for that matter, the M10 lands (which play quite nicely together with shocklands).

Most decks in Standard play a mix of the two, anyway. Shocks are better, but they're really not that much better when you don't have fetchlands.

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adeyke

Celestial Teapots are broken!

Date Joined: Feb 24, 2007

Posts: 9,386

Losing the game due to drawing from an empty library is also an SBA, not a triggered ability. Also, your point about proliferate is silly. It's not one poison counter plus time. It's one poison counter plus a bunch of spells/abilities. There are countless more spells/abilities that will decrease your life total, and most of them work even from a blank slate.

razorborne

Corporate Slave

Date Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Posts: 19,314

Jan 26, 2013 -- 9:28AM, adeyke wrote:
Losing the game due to drawing from an empty library is also an SBA, not a triggered ability. Also, your point about proliferate is silly. It's not one poison counter plus time. It's one poison counter plus a bunch of spells/abilities. There are countless more spells/abilities that will decrease your life total, and most of them work even from a blank slate.

bay

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

Fenix.

Date Joined: Jan 13, 2012

Posts: 3,047

Jan 26, 2013 -- 9:21AM, bay_falconer wrote:
And paying life isn't that important. You lose the game in only four ways:

1) As a state-based action when you have 0 or less life. Note that few players have exactly 0 life. Also note that unlike 2, there's no card that says "If an opponent has less than 20 life, he or she loses 1 life."
2) As a state-based action when you have 10 or more poison counters. Note that having even one poison counter can kill you with time . (And all manner of Giant Growth -type effects when a creature with infect isn't blocked.)
3) As a triggered ability when you are forced to draw a card (either from the draw step or from an effect in the game) but your library is empty.
4) As the result of a particular spell or ability. Note that some spells or abilities give their controllers ways to lose the game, and some remove ways to lose the game from one or both players.

So, relevant to this, even if 1 is your opponent's endgame (and it usually is), the game doesn't care until you have a life total less than or equal to 0. (Obviously some cards care about life totals, but my point remains.)

I am confused by this post.

Quotes Show

Nov 27, 2012 -- 6:39AM, Mata_Hari wrote:
Nov 27, 2012 -- 12:26AM, BankaiMastery wrote:
Okay, here is the clincher. I've been waiting to say this.

The "cam girl" this was inspired by was just a girl from a social networking website, Stickam. Her name was TinyTerror and she was just a regular girl who was on her webcam, totally unrelated to any type of adult content.

I hope you all feel really smart now.
This is like someone coming into class with a bloody nose and everyone's like "Jeez what happened to you" and they're like "I ran into a wall" and everyone laughs at them for being an idiot but then at the end of the class they say "HAHA JUST KIDDING I PUNCHED MYSELF IN THE FACE!!!!!! TALK ABOUT OWNED HAHAHAHAHA"

Oct 25, 2012 -- 9:53PM, magicpablo666 wrote:
I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.

Sorin walked into the chamber where his newly wed bride, Vampy, awaited. A beam of moonlight illuminated his brilliant silver hair as he strode with confidence towards the bed. His shirtless body showcased his powerful abdominal muscles and he was wearing jeans with holes in the knees.

Nov 24, 2012 -- 8:07PM, felisdomesticus wrote:
Nov 24, 2012 -- 7:19PM, CherylCheryl wrote:
I wish more girls play magic cards...

Have you considered assassinating Kevin?

razorborne

Corporate Slave

Date Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Posts: 19,314

Jan 26, 2013 -- 12:50PM, Fenix. wrote:
Jan 26, 2013 -- 9:21AM, bay_falconer wrote:
And paying life isn't that important. You lose the game in only four ways:

1) As a state-based action when you have 0 or less life. Note that few players have exactly 0 life. Also note that unlike 2, there's no card that says "If an opponent has less than 20 life, he or she loses 1 life."
2) As a state-based action when you have 10 or more poison counters. Note that having even one poison counter can kill you with time . (And all manner of Giant Growth -type effects when a creature with infect isn't blocked.)
3) As a triggered ability when you are forced to draw a card (either from the draw step or from an effect in the game) but your library is empty.
4) As the result of a particular spell or ability. Note that some spells or abilities give their controllers ways to lose the game, and some remove ways to lose the game from one or both players.

So, relevant to this, even if 1 is your opponent's endgame (and it usually is), the game doesn't care until you have a life total less than or equal to 0. (Obviously some cards care about life totals, but my point remains.)

I am confused by this post.

he's basically saying "only your last life point matters", which is fairly common knowledge, but he's saying it in a really roundabout way.

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

Shadowchu

Terminal n00b

Date Joined: Sep 10, 2006

Posts: 5,658

They are good mostly because they can be fetched. It also means we can be super greedy with our mana in standard right now which everybody likes.

Good in EDH

JaxsonBateman

Date Joined: Sep 16, 2009

Posts: 4,180

Jan 26, 2013 -- 8:34AM, Enigma256 wrote:
they can be found by Farseek and other cards
they come into play untapped whenever you need them to
they have land types, which can matter for cards like Mutilate or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

Enigma sums it up pretty succinctly here. They're arguably the second best lands behind the original duals, which are just stupid powerful.

However, plenty of the other duals/multicolor lands do match up quite nicely. For example, the filter land cycle never comes in tapped, and if you have a half decent mana base alongside it not only gives you the mana you need, but can go from something like turn 1 mountain + Lightning Bolt , into turn 2 Cascade Bluffs and Counterspell .

I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans.

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