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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 4:08AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2009
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Most of this talk about Ciphor = Enchantment Auras is pretty far off. The whole reason Auras ar bad is the risk of being 2-for-1'd. You don't get 2-for-1'd with Ciphor. You're always getting some effect out of the Ciphor card (unless it is countered, and then it's a 1-for-1, which is fine. The longer the Ciphor card stays encoded the better, but even if you don't get a single Ciphor activation, you still get some value.
The flip side is, most of the Ciphor spells are overrcosted, so just casting the spell usually isn't enough impact to be worth a card. But even then, the comparison to Auras still seems fault.
I think this deck wants to mill, if nothing else, to enhance things like the pre-release card.
I'll be playing this Guild today, probably won't do too well, but might as well give it a shot.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 7:58AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2012
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Cipher is a sorcery so instant removal prevents any triggers. People keep saying that cipher pays off atleast once, but I for one will be holding my removal in my hand foe effects like cipher and bloodrush
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 7:58AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2012
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Cipher is a sorcery so instant removal prevents any triggers. People keep saying that cipher pays off atleast once, but I for one will be holding my removal in my hand foe effects like cipher and bloodrush
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:19AM
#24
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2007
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Cipher, IMO, is best if you can cast, and hit twice with it. If you only get the first casting, you get majorly overcosted effects. If you get a hit in, you get minorly undercosted effects, if you can get that second hit in, you get undercosted effects.
Ive seen sevral spells perform pretty well on evasion creatures, and it is very synergestic with simic and orzhov.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:20AM
#25
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2007
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Also, being able to cipher onto a keyrune and Gideon is pretty awesome.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 4:37PM
#26
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Well I don't know if somone has mentioned it but
Cipher+Extort can work together mass small extorts and an evasion and just sap life. Not great but funny
I agree in general though dimir does not seem to be very powerful. The entire deck appires to fall down to draw a bomb please deck
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 5:03PM
#27
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I went dimir and I was fairly happy about it. Keymaster Rouge  with 2 Call of the nightwing  's made for an unblockable that could effectively block 2 creatures after it attacked (Barring Madcap skills  of course) Once you hit that point your less milling and more cherry tapping their life away while you use counters to keep their board position weak. Any other ciphers added beyond that just made things worse/better depending on the point of view. So to me Dimir played like an augmented green deck where instead of beefing up the attack and life of a creature you added to the list of terrible things you where doing to your opponent Undercity plague  was a real arm breaker against the orsov decks that I played. But I felt the deck was weak in the mill aspect. And that sort of sucks seeing as how I was hoping for gatecrash to make mill less ignored by the power creep that other win conditions seem to have gained. As for cipher being basically aura's. I don't quite see it. To me ciphers are an overpriced spell that is questionably worth it alone but can be recast indefinately so long as a creature can attack. So to use the above combo you drop Call of the nightwing and get a creature token assuming its not blocked. From there you swing with your unblockable rouge and get another token. Next turn swing 3rd token in 2 turns as compaired to 2 in 2. It seems more of a risk vs reward type thing. Plus because it is recast every turn you can use very undisirable things to flush out their counters so you can use your big drops. On top of that it goes well with extort so that you can gain life every turn as well. It may seem like an aura but it opens a lot more doors when you stop and think on it.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 6:55PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2012
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Well I don't know if somone has mentioned it but
Cipher+Extort can work together mass small extorts and an evasion and just sap life. Not great but funny
I agree in general though dimir does not seem to be very powerful. The entire deck appires to fall down to draw a bomb please deck
Well, they do have Last Thoughts  and Bane Alley Broker  . Those are pretty helpful for drawing cards.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:17PM
#29
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For me Simic seemed pretty solid. It could also get out of hand - evolve struck me as similar to populate in RTR in that set up right it can be just crazy. I saw good and bad Boros and Gruul. Dimir probably was the weakest - it's got some strong parts, but it just seems they're a little disparate. Most of the games I won with Dimir were off of double Consuming Aberration  , and I didn't see much else. For me the most consistent was Orzhov. Plenty of removal to choose from, aggro and control directions, and extort in volume is a little oppressive.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 28, 2013 - 8:28AM
#30
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I played in 5 prerelease events, once with each guild. Undoubtedly, Boros had the highest win ratio of the entire event, probably followed by Orzhov. However, Dimir was not as weak as I was thinking, and I would at the least state that their prerelease card is THE strongest prerelease promo of the guilds in limited. Milling is a POSSIBLE win, but that's not really what a player should aim to do. A lot of the simple milling cards are tacked onto not-terrible bodies, notably Balustrade Spy  and Undercity Informer  . With the latter, simply sacrifice any chump blocker for his effect (preferably with Call of the Nightwing  or Mortus Strider  ). Just having somewhere around 7 cards in your opponents graveyards suddenly makes a lot of their cards exceptionally efficient, from Death's Approach  (a great 1 mana investment to use even before they have a graveyard if you have no other use for your single untapped Swamp) to Sepulchral Primordial  to their promo Consuming Aberration . Their keyrune is probably the most game changing of the keyrunes, either for racing your opponent, using as a Cipher target or simply dealing damage as you grind the rest of the board to a stalemate. Most Cipher spells are of limited use, but the best nonrares among them are easily Hands of Binding  and Shadow Strike  , and the multiple casting is great if you have some extort to use or your Consuming Aberration out. Finally, they get access to the 3 mana hard counter of the set with Psychic Strike  and their guildmage IS a win condition when paired with any means to cheaply mill, preferably with triggered or cheap activated abilities. While I'm not a fan of Diluvian Primordial  , it is worth noting that both the Black and Blue primordials BEST work with Dimir, and considering that the primordials tend to show up in the guild boosters every now and then, it's nice to have some late game if you can pull the game out. At the prerelease events I went to, Dimir was the least chosen guild, but certainly not the clear frequent losers of the group Izzet appeared to be in Return to Ravnica.
Came for the flavor, stayed for the game. (10/4/2013: Discovered that I suppose I most closely resemble a Vorthos player, right after my odd obsession with making hyper-budget but effective decks and right before being a Johnny)
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