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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:40AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2013
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Hi everyone,
My question is related to multiple creatures spells cast in one main phase and how they use the stack. This is what I had in mind:
It's my opponent's main phase and he casts a creature. I choose not to respond to it. He then proceeds to cast a second creature in that same main phase. Now, I wish to counter both his creatures by casting an Essence Backlash and then copying that same Backlash with a Dual Casting. That'd only work if both his creatures and my Backlash, Dual Casting and the produced copy all share the same stack. So my question is, do they at all times share the same stack within the same main phase?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:41AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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usually when he cast his second creature the first one has already resolved
he could respond to the first creature if the second creature has Flash, but that is generally a tactical error
so what you are trying to do doesn't work most of the time, and if it does it was a big play error on part of your opponent
also, there only is ever one stack
proud member of the 2011 community team
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:41AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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no, he likely can't cast one in response to the other because creatures normally are cast at sorcery timing (of course there are things like flash and Leyline of Anticipation  ) but even if he could cast them in response to each other, shortcut rules say that he casts them one at a time unless he explicitly specifies otherwise.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:43AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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It's my opponent's main phase and he casts a creature. I choose not to respond to it.
At this point, his creature spell resolves and enters the battlefield. It is no longer a spell and it is no longer on the stack.
He then proceeds to cast a second creature in that same main phase. Now, I wish to counter both his creatures by casting an Essence Backlash and then copying that same Backlash with a Dual Casting. So my question is, do they at all times share the same stack within the same main phase?
Doesn't work. There is only one spell on the stack.
By the way, your wording implies that there are multiple stacks, which isn't the case. There is one stack and it always exists, even if nothing is currently on it (similar to how there is one battlefield and it always exists, even if nothing is currently on it).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:47AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2013
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It's my opponent's main phase and he casts a creature. I choose not to respond to it.
At this point, his creature spell resolves and enters the battlefield. It is no longer a spell and it is no longer on the stack.
He then proceeds to cast a second creature in that same main phase. Now, I wish to counter both his creatures by casting an Essence Backlash and then copying that same Backlash with a Dual Casting. So my question is, do they at all times share the same stack within the same main phase?
Doesn't work. There is only one spell on the stack.
By the way, your wording implies that there are multiple stacks, which isn't the case. There is one stack and it always exists, even if nothing is currently on it (similar to how there is one battlefield and it always exists, even if nothing is currently on it).
So, if I interpret all of that correctly that would mean that spells start resolving as soon as even one player chooses not to respond and not just when both players pass in row?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:54AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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when a player casts a spell he gets priority again a shortcut is assumed that he passes that priority so when you pass priority back to your opponent after he cast a creature both players have passed and the spell resolves that also means when you want to use Dual Casting  you have to say you keep the priority after casting the first spell you can't wait to see if your opponent Cancel  s it, you have to go "all in"
proud member of the 2011 community team
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:56AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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So, if I interpret all of that correctly that would mean that spells start resolving as soon as even one player chooses not to respond and not just when both players pass in row?
ONE spell (the one that's on the top of the stack) resolves after BOTH players have passed priority. Then the active player gets priority again. However, most spells (all of them except instants  and those with Flash  ) can only be cast if the stack is empty, so to cast multiple creatures (without flash  ) your opponent need to cast one, then pass priority to you, and if you pass priority too (without countering it), the creature can resolve from the stack and enter the battlefield; then he casts the second one, rinse, repeat. This is what happens most of times, so it's assumed they're doing it and the whole process is shortcuted.
[<o>]
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:57AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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So, if I interpret all of that correctly that would mean that spells start resolving as soon as even one player chooses not to respond and not just when both players pass in row?
No, both players must choose to not respond (more technically, they need to "pass priority in succession").
When you said "I choose not to respond to it", that was preceded by your opponent choosing not to respond to it. Most likely he did this implicitly, rather than by literally saying that he didn't respond to his own spell. It's rare to want to respond to your own spells, and thus you're assumed to be not responding, unless you say explicitly say otherwise.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:57AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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It's my opponent's main phase and he casts a creature. I choose not to respond to it.
His creature spell would resolve at this point and enter the field
He then proceeds to cast a second creature in that same main phase. Now, I wish to counter both his creatures
his first creature is on the battlefield and not a legal target
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:17AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2013
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Thanks for the responses, everyone. You've all taught me some valuable lessons about the stack. Shame I can't use my double Backlash technique, then. I'll have to take that into account when finishing up the deck I planned to use it in.
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