So some of the issues with Cipher actually pushed me into making an account here.
Each Cipher card basically acts like an enchantment, which of course allows it to be encoded to hexproof creatures (I first thought they should have changed the word to include "target" for cipher but realized it still would work with Invisible Stalker).
I feel like these overcosted cards would be worth it more if they just required a creature to attack, not necessarily connect. That makes the keyword act more like subterfuge that the Dimir would be known for. This puts pressure on an opponent to destroy the encoded creatures quickly, either through removal or blocking, and insures that Cipher cards would hit twice.
Each Cipher card basically acts like an enchantment, which of course allows it to be encoded to hexproof creatures (I first thought they should have changed the word to include "target" for cipher but realized it still would work with Invisible Stalker).
Not only that. You wouldn't be able to encode on the tokens made by Call of the Nightwing and Stolen Identity , and if the original didn't have a target, you could suddenly counter the original spell by removing the target, which seems pretty bad for a mechanic that is in the end optional.
While cipher would still work only on attacking with the evasive guys, it would make the mechanic infinitely more overpowered, and so drawing a card would cost like and wouldn't be common. Keep in mind that these card advantage-y mechanics are often a lot better in Limited so they have to balance them a bit. But I think Hands of Binding and Stolen Identity are actually good cards.
Each Cipher card basically acts like an enchantment, which of course allows it to be encoded to hexproof creatures (I first thought they should have changed the word to include "target" for cipher but realized it still would work with Invisible Stalker).
Not only that. You wouldn't be able to encode on the tokens made by Call of the Nightwing and Stolen Identity , and if the original didn't have a target, you could suddenly counter the original spell by removing the target, which seems pretty bad for a mechanic that is in the end optional.
While cipher would still work only on attacking with the evasive guys, it would make the mechanic infinitely more overpowered, and so drawing a card would cost like and wouldn't be common. Keep in mind that these card advantage-y mechanics are often a lot better in Limited so they have to balance them a bit. But I think Hands of Binding and Stolen Identity are actually good cards.
You would still be able to encode with tokens made from Call of the Nightwing and Stolen Identity wouldn't you? The current wording is "Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control." The change would have been "target creature you control" which tokens count for. Unless the word "target" doesn't operate the same in rules text on cards.
I disagree that a draw card would have to cost so much. The new one Last Thoughts is basically Curiousity but costs 3 more. WotC really should have looked at the equivalent enchantments that do the same thing before designing these cards. I'd be okay with the 4cc cost of Last Thoughts if it required an attack to only be declared.
You would still be able to encode with tokens made from Call of the Nightwing and Stolen Identity wouldn't you? The current wording is "Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control." The change would have been "target creature you control" which tokens count for. Unless the word "target" doesn't operate the same in rules text on cards.
No, you wouldn't. Requiring cipher cards to target a creature would mean that the target would have to be on the battlefield at the time of casting the spell. The tokens generated from Stolen Identity and Call of the Nightwing aren't on the battlefield when you cast those spells, so you wouldn't be able to encode them. This is the exact reason why cipher spells don't target. Requiring a target would also mean that you would have to have at least one targetable creature (that is, a creature without shroud, or protection from blue or black, both of which cipher ignores because it doesn't target) on the battlefield when you cast the spell. If the target becomes illegal before the spell resolves--it dies or gets bounced somehow--then your spell gets countered and you don't get to benifit at all. You need to be able to play your cipher spells with or without a creature, and the spells shouldn't be able to get countered so easily.
I disagree that a draw card would have to cost so much. The new one Last Thoughts is basically Curiousity but costs 3 more. WotC really should have looked at the equivalent enchantments that do the same thing before designing these cards. I'd be okay with the 4cc cost of Last Thoughts if it required an attack to only be declared.
You need to stop thinking of cipher in terms of enchantments. Yes, four mana is expensive to draw one card, especially in blue. However, the simple fact that you can encode this card onto a flyer or an unblockable and be able to repeatedly draw a card is why the spell costs so much. What if a card read, "Draw a card. [This card] deals 1 damage to an opponent of your choice. Draw a card." Is that spell overcosted at four mana? (For the record, that's an actual question; I'm no good at costing cards.) I can tell you right now that a card that reads, "Put a token of target artifact or creature onto the battlefield. [This card] deals 1 damage to an opponent of your choice. Put a token of target artifact or creature onto the battlefield (you may choose a new target)." priced at is a card I would play, and that's pretty much what cipher is doing.
Oh yeah, and having the encoded spell trigger solely on attacking is grossly overpowered.
I understand that recast triggers are creatures dealing combat damage to a player. conceptually, I prefer unopposed attacking creature deals no damage (to do something else)
I understand that recast triggers are creatures dealing combat damage to a player. conceptually, I prefer unopposed attacking creature deals no damage (to do something else)
my boat is empty
"Whenever this deals combat damage to a player." and "Whenever this attacks and isn't blocked, prevent all combat damage it would deal this turn. If you do," don't play that differently (they would cost about the same), except one gives you a choice you don't want to make because you already struggled to get through the blockers. They (now) never use the second. It's also wordier (and cipher's reminder text is giant).
Keeping Cipher playable, fun, and unbroken, while having it be basically the same effect, wouldn't be easy.
Right now it's too overcosted to really matter in constructed, which is somewhat sad. If you can use Lazav with something like Paranoid Delusions or Whispering Madness to turn him into some giant fatty or evasive creature and then encode the spell on him (turning him into a hexproof, encoded Griselbrand or Drogskol Reaver or something equally terrifying) then you win.
Otherwise you'll get it off once, maybe twice before your creature is bounced and the card is stuck in exile.
