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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 4:27AM
#1
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It puts the opposing player on a 3-4 turn clock simply by repeating its 0 ability.
I don't get how this card could be published, much less not banned. I have lost to it perhaps 90% of the times it's been played. It probably has a kill rate similar to Nicol Bolas, but at a much simpler casting cost.
If I felt like winning lots of boring, uninteractive games, I'd play four Jaces, but I like to enjoy my games, so I don't.
I just don't see how this card can exist.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 6:00AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2006
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I think the "problem" is the potency of destruction. I honestly don't think that 0-creature decks should be possible. Walls, sure. Why aren't there more global enchantments that prohibit attacking instead of complete and utter destruction at every turn? ... There's bounds of unused design terrain that doesn't push destruction. Spoiler:
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Chant of the Innocent 1W
Whenever damage is dealt to you, put a feather counter on Chant of the Innocent for each point of damage.
Remove a feather counter from Chant of the Innocent: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you.
If a source you control causes an opponent to lose life, sacrifice Chant of the Innocent.
(The latter is because 2 of these in play == stalemate)
Symphony of Destruction 1B
Whenever a creature deals combat damage to you, put a needle counter on Symphony of Destruction for each point of damage dealt.
Remove two needle counters from Symphony of Destruction: Target opponent loses 1 life.
Melody of Life 1G
Whenever a creature deals combat damage to you, put a 0/1 green saproiling token into play under your control.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control 10 or more creature with 0 power, sacrifice Melody of Life and put a 10/10 green avatar creature token into play.
Tune of Discord 1R
Whenever a creature attacks you, attacking creatures get -1/-0
Song of the Sirens 1U
Whenever a creature deals combat damage to you, that creature doesn't untap during it's controllers untap step.
Destruction is "all or nothing", 1 for 1, 2 for 1 or 10 for 1-- pushing the " every card costing 4 or more must be indestructible, resistant to removal, able to replace itself or game-winning"-meta.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:02AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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It puts the opposing player on a 3-4 turn clock simply by repeating its 0 ability.
I don't get how this card could be published, much less not banned. I have lost to it perhaps 90% of the times it's been played. It probably has a kill rate similar to Nicol Bolas, but at a much simpler casting cost.
Because it's not that good. And neither is Bolas. What are you doing when they hit the board? Do you just sit back and let them do their thing? You know you can attack them, right? You know you can redirect non-combat damage you control from a player to any planeswalker he controls, right?
If these cards are consistently beating you than you are doing something terribly wrong.
Scope my YouTube channel!The U.S. Army: The best job in the world, working with some of the best people in the world, for one of the worst employers you could ever imagine. Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS! | Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994. | Billy Goat Gruff in the House of Trolls. |
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:11AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2006
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I think it's a matter of price, not ability nor will.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:22AM
#5
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Speaking just from Standard's point of view: Pithing Needle  , naming Jace Memory Adept shuts him down as early as turn 1. Dreadbore  , kills the Jace currently in play as early as turn 2, but Jace can't come down until turn 3 at the earliest (Turn 1: land + dork, turn 2: land + ramp spell, turn 3: land + Jace). Dealing him 4 damage, kills Jace if they can't block it. Burn, creature swings. It gets there. Elixir of Immortality  , Just when they thought they had you, you crack this and undo all their hard work. This is shut down via Rest in Piece  . Oblivion Ring  , exiles that Jace as early as turn 3, but again, he can't come down that early. Counter him, if they want to put you on a fast clock, then need to play him ASAP. That leaves them volnerable to Syncopate  for X = 1. Otherwise, Negate works pretty well. Witchbane Orb  , you can't be milled if you can't be targeted. Comes online possibly 1 turn slower than the fastest possible Jace, but 1 turn sooner than a normal, non-ramped Jace. Mill is rarely a viable stategy unless you can rip large amounts of cards (15+) at the same time. It usually requires a combo to do it, since most mill spells are just really inefficent burn spells on their own. Spoiler Alert
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Even with Duskmantle Guildmage  from Gatecrash. You're suddenly pairing a 5 mana planeswalker with a 3 mana 2/2. It's very easy to remove a 2/2, and you need to pay    if you want to get the kill in 1 turn (and even than is via life lose, not Mill, which renders all other mill spells in the deck moot).
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:29AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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[<o>]
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:35AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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Scope my YouTube channel!The U.S. Army: The best job in the world, working with some of the best people in the world, for one of the worst employers you could ever imagine. Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS! | Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994. | Billy Goat Gruff in the House of Trolls. |
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 2:42PM
#8
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What color are you running? If he's just spamming the 0: ability, four damage is enough to take him down ( Thundermaw Hellkite  and he's story); or use Dreadbore , Oblivion Ring , Bramblecrush  , Negate  , Duress  ...
Or just  ing attack! I mean, even green ramp into fatties can do that, and it's been an acceptable way to play since '95, if not since '93.
I run a pretty creature-light control deck. I'm always willing to consider the possibility that I'm totally incompetent, and while that is often true, I don't think it's true in this case. I've only been playing a few months, but my win rate on MTGO Tournament Practice room is about 40%.
I do happen to have 1 or 2 Elixirs of Immortality in my deck, as well as Detention Spheres, but the problem is that when when Jace is milling you for 10 cards/turn, they all end up in the "#$%&' graveyard.
Obviously I need to think of better ways to counter the threat, BUT: just consider whether the other 5 mana planeswalkers out there put you on a 3-4 turn clock. The answer is no. They are not nearly as much of an immediate threat as Jace Memory Adept.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 3:30PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2010
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I honestly don't think that 0-creature decks should be possible.
Not so much that. It's not that storm (the archetypal broken creatureless deck) is broken because it doesn't have any creatures. It's that storm is broken because giving your player a spell that does X damage, where X is determined by something a player can increase but never decrease over the course of a turn, is a Bad Thing.
The same logic can be applied to every Tier 1 creatureless deck ever. Creatureless decks have the obvious weakness of being unable to block, for starters.
Spamming the 0 ability and no creatures means "just attack, goddammit!"
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
----
Autocard is your friend.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] = Lightning Bolt 
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 3:44PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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Scope my YouTube channel!The U.S. Army: The best job in the world, working with some of the best people in the world, for one of the worst employers you could ever imagine. Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS! | Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994. | Billy Goat Gruff in the House of Trolls. |
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