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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 5:15AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
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This post is more so people know what might happen in this situation as no one at the tourney had ever seen this happen before. So at GP Singapore this weekend. In the final round of Day One before I would go on to play in Day Two we had an interesting situation. My opponent went first and we both had desecration Demon in our opening hand (this is a sealed Grand Prix by the way). He plays his turn 4 Desecration Demon  then I play mine. On EACH combat phase BOTH triggers go off. First the active player's (attacker), then the defender's. Since the defender's triggers second it will resolve first. So if you are defending in this situation, you get more information than your opponent before making a choice. He must sac to tap the demon before you make your decision. It was actually not that easy to deceide what to do during the match.
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1. Domri Rade  4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Obzedat, Ghost Council  4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Rubblehulk  3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Ground Assault  3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. Kingpin's Pet  2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Mugging  2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Act of Treason  1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Gutter Skulk  1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Mental Vapors  0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Shattering Blow  0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Frenzied tilling 
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 7:14AM
#2
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- Master of the Quiz (Win '09)
Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2008
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On EACH combat phase BOTH triggers go off.
Yes, both the triggers all trigger at the same time.
First the active player's (attacker), then the defender's.
Since the defender's triggers second it will resolve first. So if you are defending in this situation, you get more information than your opponent before making a choice. He must sac to tap the demon before you make your decision.
No, they both trigger at the same time. The active player's triggers are placed on the stack first. Then the non-active player's triggers are placed on the stack. But the triggers all triggered at the same time.
_Magic: The Gathering_ Comprehensive Rules
These rules are effective as of October 1, 2012.
603. Handling Triggered Abilities
603.2b When a phase or step begins, all abilities that trigger "at the beginning of" that phase or step trigger.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 8:21AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
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The level 3 judge said that the active player's "triggers first" I'll take his ruling over random internet guy...
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1. Domri Rade 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Obzedat, Ghost Council 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Rubblehulk 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Ground Assault 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. Kingpin's Pet 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Mugging 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Act of Treason 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Gutter Skulk 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Mental Vapors 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Shattering Blow 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Frenzied tilling
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 8:25AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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The level 3 judge said that the active player's "triggers first" I'll take his ruling over random internet guy...
well the Level 3 judge is technically wrong or perhaps he just casually misspoke or was misquoted
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.
603.2b When a phase or step begins, all abilities that trigger “at the beginning of” that phase or step trigger.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
This would occur simultaneously for both triggers as the combat phase started, however, the active player would put his trtigger on the stack first, it's a semantic difference, but a difference nonetheless
if you were to present this thread to the judge in question he would likely agree with the assessment here because it is based on what the rules actually say
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 8:59AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2010
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The level 3 judge said that the active player's "triggers first" I'll take his ruling over random internet guy...
That kind of attitude will not help you on these forums. But I digress.
It's more likely when the Judge said "triggers first" he meant "will be put on the stack first" - obviously they "trigger" at the same time, but it's the order in which they're put on the stack that matters. Everything else in your original post is pretty much correct. The defending player will have to make a choice first, and then the active player can use that information to make a decision. Nothing mqj said was inaccurate, either. Hardly just a "random internet guy"...
Sean Stackhouse
Level Two Judge (Yay!)
Maine
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 6:38PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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The level 3 judge said that the active player's "triggers first" I'll take his ruling over random internet guy...
That kind of attitude will not help you on these forums. But I digress.
Digress? Not by much: I had to restrain myself not to report this offensive comment.
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:25AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
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The level 3 judge said that the active player's "triggers first" I'll take his ruling over random internet guy...
That kind of attitude will not help you on these forums. But I digress.
It's more likely when the Judge said "triggers first" he meant "will be put on the stack first" - obviously they "trigger" at the same time, but it's the order in which they're put on the stack that matters. Everything else in your original post is pretty much correct. The defending player will have to make a choice first, and then the active player can use that information to make a decision. Nothing mqj said was inaccurate, either. Hardly just a "random internet guy"...
I'm just telling you what happened at the GP. What the judge said, etc. It really doesn't matter as the word doesn't change the interaction in this case.
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1. Domri Rade 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Obzedat, Ghost Council 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Rubblehulk 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Ground Assault 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. Kingpin's Pet 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Mugging 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Act of Treason 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Gutter Skulk 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Mental Vapors 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Shattering Blow 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Frenzied tilling
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