I think we're all taking for granted that the set SHOULD be spoiled prior to release.
Personally, I like the way they do it now. Catch the standard player's interest with a few rare bombs, then get the limited player's attention by talking about the mechanics and feel of the set, while not uncovering more than 7-8% of the set itself.
Many casual players find pre-releases to be the last "fair" place to play in an actual tournament setting, because no one knows the whole set, and its somewhat equal footing. I'd be happy if the internet weren't the most giant whore in the world when it comes to leaking every possible kind of information ever, and we only got 5% of a new set. Enough for flavor, mechanics, and a few eye-candy cards to keep interest up until the release itself.
Now people are bitching and moaning they don't have 100% of the info a week plus out because its not "convenient" to play SEALED without knowing everything about the set.
Are you kidding? Why even GO to a pre release if you already know what all the cards are? What's the point? Where's the fun in that? You may as well just draft at your local FNM or with friends.
The whole POINT of a pre release is to gather people together to play with a new set and discover what its all about and talk about which cards are awesome and trade and play. Who's going to drive miles and hours out of their way to a release when they already know what the set is?
Sorry....spoilers are bad for business, and for the game in general. That's why they do it the way they do.
Disagree...I play limited and most people are close to running out of time to build their sealed in formats that they have played many times. Not knowing a single card before getting your sealed pool is a good way to build a crappy deck and not have fun. If we had an hour to make the deck that would be a different story...
bulletd Guidelines:
5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Domri Rade 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Obzedat, Ghost Council 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Rubblehulk 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Ground Assault 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. Kingpin's Pet 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Mugging 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Act of Treason 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Gutter Skulk 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Mental Vapors 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Shattering Blow 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Frenzied tilling
If you can build a deck in 7 minutes, you're not playing with a new set. You're in auto-pilot with a set you know forwards and backwards. Completely not the point of a pre-release.
And yes, not knowing the cards CAN lead to serious deckbuilding errors (as opposed to if you knew all the cards).
Pre release events are not about dominating the floor with you awesome skills/tech. Its about having fun with new cards that you've never seen before, and thinking ON THE FLY about how to deal with them.
In my experience, limited/drafters tend to be really crafty and creative.
It honestly saddens me that you would say you wouldn't have fun at a pre-re without a full spoil.
But I suppose there are always folks who only get enjoyment out of winning, and nothing short of that. To each their own.
If you can build a deck in 7 minutes, you're not playing with a new set. You're in auto-pilot with a set you know forwards and backwards. Completely not the point of a pre-release.
And yes, not knowing the cards CAN lead to serious deckbuilding errors (as opposed to if you knew all the cards).
Pre release events are not about dominating the floor with you awesome skills/tech. Its about having fun with new cards that you've never seen before, and thinking ON THE FLY about how to deal with them.
In my experience, limited/drafters tend to be really crafty and creative.
It honestly saddens me that you would say you wouldn't have fun at a pre-re without a full spoil.
But I suppose there are always folks who only get enjoyment out of winning, and nothing short of that. To each their own.
The first prerelease I can recall attending was exodus. No spoilers back then. Heck no internet then to speak of. I only remember that (a) I didn't do very well and (b) I opened a recurring nightmare which people thought I was crazy to play, but which was in fact (not surprisingly) amazing. The first prerelease I can recall doing well at was the Invasion prelease. I got a decent amount of mana fixing and - eschewing the conventional wisdom at the time - ran four colors instead of the "tried and tested" two. I went unbeaten all day (I had to drop the last round to make a birthday party that evening - and left with no packs - so have no idea if I would have won the event). Those were the days! Those were also the days when you could turn up at a tournment, with your homebrew deck that cost less than $100, and do quite well. Those were the days when most expensive cards in the new set rarely exceeded £10. Those were the days when card sharks were a rare, isolated bunch and you could afford to ignore them and just trade with your friends. For me those were the halcedean days of magic - not the best by design standards, but when the game had a naive charm about it and you could play with your wits, not 1,000 hours of practice online and $1,000 decks, and you didn't feel that Wizards were out to bleed you for every penny.
But that's not where we are now, for better or for worse. I agree with you that competing on the fly is more noble, but I think everyone having the knowledge is probably a more even state of affairs than if a set wasn't to be spoiled until the day of the prerelease - even if that were the case some people would still find a way to get an advantage (information from earlier time zones, playing in successive events, etc). So unfortunately we can't turn back the clock on that.
In any event, I think we are talking about two different things. You are debating advance knowledge vs no advance knowledge. I'm suggesting that if spoilers exist at all, then so-called "spoiler season" is better served with a steady, escalating release of cards and not this "leaky tap" approach followed by more than half the set in one day. I have found this spoiler season to be quite irritating with "Wizards knows best" deciding that 2 cards spoiled over 3 days then followed by 125 cards is a good way to drum up my interest in the new set.
I have a perspective on this that I believe hasn't been addressed.
I am a low-to-mid competitive player. I go to FNM and releases, and any tournaments that are reasonably local for me. The thing I like to do with a new set is see what I can brew with to take to FNM with me the day of release. THAT'S why I like having the set spoiled early, so I know qhich cards to preorder.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant...
but where DID the other fork come from? Spoiler:Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before.
I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before.
Boy was I in for a treat.
When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another!
before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours.
His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch.
My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The full set will be released tomorrow. This is how Wizards tries to do it. Mythics and bomb rares are the ones that have articles written about them; they, and a select few commons and uncommons for limited. Why has it been taking so long to see them all, you ask? Why does it feel like we haven't been getting as many cards this time around? For two reasons: 1, because Wizards has apparently been able to keep a very tight lid on unauthorized spoilers and leaks; and 2, because Gatecrash is a large set, a fact that it appears no one has addressed yet. The fact that Gatecrash is a large set means that we got three weeks of spoilers instead of two.
Wizards is very methodical when it comes to releasing spoilers. They put a lot of thought into what cards they spoil on the mothership and in what order. The Monday before prerelease is usually when the full visual spoiler gets put up. Tomorrow, you can expect the full spoiler, plus the Prerelease Primer.
*prays for some neat unknown uncommons and/or commons relvealed tomorrow* There are still 127 cards left, even 3 rares if I recall right. Can't wait, WotC please make me squeak!
with a set this big, we're all gonna find SOMWTHING to exclaim about tomorrow when the full spoiler goes live. Wizards has really kept a lid on it, and I think this is, finally, how they intend spoilers to happen, teasing followed by "ohmygodwow".
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant...
but where DID the other fork come from? Spoiler:Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before.
I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before.
Boy was I in for a treat.
When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another!
before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours.
His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch.
My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
If you can build a deck in 7 minutes, you're not playing with a new set. You're in auto-pilot with a set you know forwards and backwards. Completely not the point of a pre-release.
And yes, not knowing the cards CAN lead to serious deckbuilding errors (as opposed to if you knew all the cards).
Pre release events are not about dominating the floor with you awesome skills/tech. Its about having fun with new cards that you've never seen before, and thinking ON THE FLY about how to deal with them.
In my experience, limited/drafters tend to be really crafty and creative.
It honestly saddens me that you would say you wouldn't have fun at a pre-re without a full spoil.
But I suppose there are always folks who only get enjoyment out of winning, and nothing short of that. To each their own.
The first prerelease I can recall attending was exodus. No spoilers back then. Heck no internet then to speak of. I only remember that (a) I didn't do very well and (b) I opened a recurring nightmare which people thought I was crazy to play, but which was in fact (not surprisingly) amazing. The first prerelease I can recall doing well at was the Invasion prelease. I got a decent amount of mana fixing and - eschewing the conventional wisdom at the time - ran four colors instead of the "tried and tested" two. I went unbeaten all day (I had to drop the last round to make a birthday party that evening - and left with no packs - so have no idea if I would have won the event). Those were the days! Those were also the days when you could turn up at a tournment, with your homebrew deck that cost less than $100, and do quite well. Those were the days when most expensive cards in the new set rarely exceeded £10. Those were the days when card sharks were a rare, isolated bunch and you could afford to ignore them and just trade with your friends. For me those were the halcedean days of magic - not the best by design standards, but when the game had a naive charm about it and you could play with your wits, not 1,000 hours of practice online and $1,000 decks, and you didn't feel that Wizards were out to bleed you for every penny.
But that's not where we are now, for better or for worse. I agree with you that competing on the fly is more noble, but I think everyone having the knowledge is probably a more even state of affairs than if a set wasn't to be spoiled until the day of the prerelease - even if that were the case some people would still find a way to get an advantage (information from earlier time zones, playing in successive events, etc). So unfortunately we can't turn back the clock on that.
In any event, I think we are talking about two different things. You are debating advance knowledge vs no advance knowledge. I'm suggesting that if spoilers exist at all, then so-called "spoiler season" is better served with a steady, escalating release of cards and not this "leaky tap" approach followed by more than half the set in one day. I have found this spoiler season to be quite irritating with "Wizards knows best" deciding that 2 cards spoiled over 3 days then followed by 125 cards is a good way to drum up my interest in the new set.
I think there are a LOT more people who still find pre releases to be fun and casual than you think. Afterall, while it is nice to win, and win prizes....there are no pro points to be earned, no cash prizes, no byes for GP's to be handed out. This is the ONE and only event I'd take my wife to because people I've played with are nice enough to let you untap mana if you tap it to play a spell because its supposed to be a casual event. I would never expect anyone to do that anywhere else, but it happens at the pre re. Absolutely, no doubt....there are the hardcore nerds that stay up all night devising the best draft strategy and try and figure out the print order and come up with formulas to gain an upper hand....there always be will. I say let the nerds have their OCD about it. I'm gonna enjoy playing at my own pace. End of day....I'll enjoy myself no matter what, and if they don't win, they're leaving pissed.
That said....I'm sorry if the convo derailed a bit because of me. I'd agree with you that if they were GOING to spoil more, that they should do it as you mentioned.
I just firmly believe they should NOT do any more than they currently do.
@ ilvmymustang - I suspect we agree on quite a bit really - it's the relaxed fun of the day with new cards that I Most enjoy
@ strago_magus - well, Wizards may have indeed put a lot of thought into this and finally expunged all unofficial spoilers. in which case this should have been the perfect spoiler season. Speaking personally, my experience has been far from any utopian anticipation. I would say that they've misjudged how good for building interest these unofficial spoilers were. i do sense that with Wizards "unofficial" is seen as "wrong" by default.
well, I've said my bit and then some. By the time I check back this thread and all the debates on other cards will pretty much be lost in the 127 card ICD avalanche. Of which I suspect I will find more than a few cards I will be delighted to see but, like trying to eat all my pic n mix in one mouthful, I will not savour them all that much. Happy end-of-spoiler season everyone!
