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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 2:28PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2011
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I use Karn Liberated  to restart the game, putting onto the battlefield at least one permanent with echo  . The rules describe echo as follows: 702.28a Echo is a triggered ability. “Echo [cost]” means “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay [cost].” Will echo trigger if I never had a "last upkeep"?
Rules Advisor 
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 2:34PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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Logically, it should trigger, but Magic rules ain't submitted to logic...
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 2:52PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2010
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Based on how it's worded I would say it wouldn't trigger. Echo has an intervening 'if' clause and in order for it to trigger that clause must be true. In this case the clause is not true because as you stated you had no prior upkeep.
DCI Level 2 Judge
Rockford, Illinois
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 3:30PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
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So theoretically, if you had a way  to cast a creature with echo  on your opponent's first turn (the opponent going first), you can skip the echo cost? Sounds legit. I need to do this to my friends.
Rules Advisor Please autocard: [c ]Disenchant[/c ] = Disenchant  .
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 8:03AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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So theoretically, if you had a way to cast a creature with echo on your opponent's first turn (the opponent going first), you can skip the echo cost?
Sounds legit.
It certainly would trigger according to the reminder text printed on Simian Grunts:
«During your next upkeep after this permanent comes under your control, pay its casting cost or sacrifice it.»
I know reminder text is no rule at all, but this still reflects the original intent of the Echo ability; perhaps the new wording of the rule simply is defective in that it overlooked this situation?
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 20, 2013 - 4:14PM
#6
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This is probably the first time I've ever seen a question in this forum go more than fifteen minutes without a definitive answer. Can we get a Rules Manager in here?
L1 Judge
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5 months ago ::
Jan 20, 2013 - 4:16PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2005
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This is probably the first time I've ever seen a question in this forum go more than fifteen minutes without a definitive answer. Can we get a Rules Manager in here?
It looks like the question was answered a week ago. If you want an [O] ruling, you can send a PM to Natedogg.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:44PM
#8
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- Niftily helpful
- DCI Level 2 Judge
Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
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Yes, it will trigger. You'll have to pay the echo, even if you cast the Grunts on your opponent's turn, before your first time. It's obviously too late for an update in the rules now, but it will be looked in to for the next upkeep.
Wizards.Com Boards Net Rep
DCI Level 2 Judge
Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.
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