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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 8:21AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2005
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Whatever.
Trust in yourselves, surely you know better than I.
Land Tax 
Angry Mob 
Brainwash 
Old cards, mono-white, yet obviously not "pure good", and to aptly put:
I don't think you'll ever see that you've been wrong all this time. And if you do, you're likely too proud to admit it.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 9:11AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2011
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I actually want to see this
Here.
(Zokorad's rebuttal to my first post is one of the funniest things I've read on these forums btw)
Zokorad's rebuttal was hilarious. Especially since I basically only play black decks now and play a lot of the cards he listed.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:23AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2010
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Very solid. Looks like Esper cipher/extort might be a thing in limited and Standard.
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
----
Autocard is your friend.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] = Lightning Bolt 
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:24AM
#44
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Orzhov looks like it's going to do the same thing my Izzet Guttersnipe  deck does... And it just possibly might do it better 
Sorry for making a reply largely out of nowhere, but I recently realized that Guttersnipe (and Talrand, etc) work wonders with the Dimir ciphering, since you cast the spell repeatedly essentially for free, and I am incredibly eager to build a deck, regardless of its viability, around that fact.
Well then this brings up an important question, if this works, then does Extort work with Ciphering? Even if you have no spells (say you topdecked a land), can you dumb mana into Extort off of a Cipher trigger?
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:56AM
#45
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Yes, if a spell is cast, even if it's for zero cost, you can pay mana to get the extort effect. And since the cipher triggering is considered casting the spell...
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 12:04PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2004
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Yes, if a spell is cast, even if it's for zero cost, you can pay mana to get the extort effect. And since the cipher triggering is considered casting the spell...
You mean, the "encode" triggering. Yes, as rideiculous as it is, there are TWO keywords in there.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."
"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)
"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 1:10PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2011
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Yes, if a spell is cast, even if it's for zero cost, you can pay mana to get the extort effect. And since the cipher triggering is considered casting the spell...
You mean, the "encode" triggering. Yes, as rideiculous as it is, there are TWO keywords in there.
Encode refers to the way the card is attached to the creature, so I would say cipher is an accurate word to describe the actual trigger that copies the spell, since its a part of the cipher ability.
For instance I would refer to Deadeye Navigator  's ability as a Soulbond ability rather than a paired ability.
"Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties." - catowner
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 1:13PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2004
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Yes, if a spell is cast, even if it's for zero cost, you can pay mana to get the extort effect. And since the cipher triggering is considered casting the spell...
You mean, the "encode" triggering. Yes, as rideiculous as it is, there are TWO keywords in there.
Encode refers to the way the card is attached to the creature, so I would say cipher is an accurate word to describe the actual trigger that copies the spell, since its a part of the cipher ability.
You "encode" the card; you play copies of the "encoded" card, and "cast" them. Cipher is the conglomerate for cards that encode. When you are dealing with the action of casting or exiling spells with Cipher, you are "encoding" them. It would have been just as faculative of them, and less confusing, were they to simply call it "Encode." They didn't, and the confusion that results is rampant in forums discussing the mechanic, the the above.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."
"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)
"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 1:15PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2011
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Yes, if a spell is cast, even if it's for zero cost, you can pay mana to get the extort effect. And since the cipher triggering is considered casting the spell...
You mean, the "encode" triggering. Yes, as rideiculous as it is, there are TWO keywords in there.
Encode refers to the way the card is attached to the creature, so I would say cipher is an accurate word to describe the actual trigger that copies the spell, since its a part of the cipher ability.
You "encode" the card; you play copies of the "encoded" card, and "cast" them. Cipher is the conglomerate for cards that encode. When you are dealing with the action of casting or exiling spells with Cipher, you are "encoding" them. It would have been just as faculative of them, and less confusing, were they to simply call it "Encode." They didn't, and the confusion that results is rampant in forums discussing the mechanic, the the above.
Cipher is the ability that allows you to cast copies of the encoded spell. Encode is just the way it references the spell for later use, but Cipher is the actual ability that lets you do things with it.
"Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties." - catowner
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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 1:26PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2004
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Yes, if a spell is cast, even if it's for zero cost, you can pay mana to get the extort effect. And since the cipher triggering is considered casting the spell...
You mean, the "encode" triggering. Yes, as rideiculous as it is, there are TWO keywords in there.
Encode refers to the way the card is attached to the creature, so I would say cipher is an accurate word to describe the actual trigger that copies the spell, since its a part of the cipher ability.
You "encode" the card; you play copies of the "encoded" card, and "cast" them. Cipher is the conglomerate for cards that encode. When you are dealing with the action of casting or exiling spells with Cipher, you are "encoding" them. It would have been just as faculative of them, and less confusing, were they to simply call it "Encode." They didn't, and the confusion that results is rampant in forums discussing the mechanic, the the above.
Cipher is the ability that allows you to cast copies of the encoded spell. Encode is just the way it references the spell for later use, but Cipher is the actual ability that lets you do things with it.
Forgive me for not understanding if you are contradicting what I am saying, or just agreeing with what I said, but restating it for yourself; it sounds like you did the latter.
Consider this: Prior to Scars of Mirrodin "imprint" was referred to on cards that cared about the object you exiled as "the imprinted card." This was changed to "exiled" to make "imprint" act like an ability word and not a keyword, but Cipher operates in the same manner (it refers to a dependent term that is internally consistent).
So:
You draw an imprint card, you imprint onto the card by exiling a card, you refer to the imprinted card (or now, "exiled" card), and you can continually imprint onto a card.
and:
You cast a card with encode, you "encode" onto a creature, you play "encoded" copies, "encoding" is a process for referring to exiling cards for internal consistency, etc.
There is no reason stated that the keyword should be "Cipher" instead of "Encode," save that they may want -- rampant speculation, here -- to eventually refer to other cards down the road to "encode" them. Right now, the Rules will have to be expanded to not merely clarify what Cipher does, but also what Encode means; they could have cut out the middleman and ignored the term that does not matter internally to the ability's function.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."
"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)
"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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