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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 10:47AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2009
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So I've been going through forums to better understand Vision Charm. Thus far I still am left confused on the
"or choose a land type and a basic land type, and each land of the first chosen type becomes the second chosen type until end of turn"
portion and how I can use it. Say for ex: My opponent decides to cast Thorn Elemental and when he casts the creature I throw Vision Charm and while it's on the stack I change his Forest Lands into Swamp Lands to it can only produce Black Mana... then his creature would go into the grave right?
Or does this ability only allow me to change his Forest into a Swamp prior to him casting to prevent him?
OR does this only work by choosing a land such as Rakdos Carnarium and having it produce whichever color I want to?
Basically I'm trying to figure out how this ability works for me (i.e. acceleration) and against my opponents (i.e. preventing them from casting or interrupting on the stack forcing them to send it to the graveyard)
The other abilities I understand, it's just this portion.
Sorry if I'm making some wrong assumptions with this game, currently still learning more about the game. Thanks!
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 10:55AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2009
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Firstly, please autocard. [c ]Vision Charm[/c ] becomes Vision Charm  . In any case... 1. No. He has already activated those mana abilities and gained  from them. Making them swamps after the fact won't do anything. 2. Yes, you'd want to do it at some point prior to him casting it (probably during his upkeep) in order to stop him. 3. When you choose a land type, you must choose one of the types listed in rule 205.3i 205.3i Lands have their own unique set of subtypes; these subtypes are called land types. The land types are Desert, Forest, Island, Lair, Locus, Mine, Mountain, Plains, Power-Plant, Swamp, Tower, and Urza’s.
Of that list, Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains, and Swamp are the basic land types. See rule 305.6.
So you can't choose Rakdos Carnarium, as it isn't a land 'type'. However, the Comp Rules I quoted that from are a tiny bit out of date; gate  is now a valid land type.
4. The ability doesn't really accelerate. If you wanted to use it beneficially, you could use it to mana fix by changing the lands of one type to another on your turn. To use it against your opponents, you do the opposite - cast it during their upkeep, and change one of their types of lands into another type to screw them over.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 11:04AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2009
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So to your point on #4, you're saying I can "mana fix" by changing a Basic Island Land into a Swamp Land to produce more black mana? Also what if the Land that produced Blue Mana wasn't called a basic Island what if it was some like say Lonley Sandbar  ? Can I still change this Land to produce Black Mana?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 11:17AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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You can't do anything to Lonely Sandbar  , since it doesn't have any land types. However, you can name
- "Lair => Swamp" to turn Rith's Grove
 (and the rest of its cycle) into swamps.
- "Locus => Swamp" to disable decks based around Cloudpost
 .
- "Urza's => Swamp" to hurt decks based around Urza's Tower
 .
You can also fix your mana by naming something like "Mountain => Swamp."
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 11:18AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2009
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You can't do anything to Lonely Sandbar  , since it doesn't have any land types. However, you can name
- "Lair => Swamp" to turn Rith's Grove
 (and the rest of its cycle) into swamps.
- "Locus => Swamp" to disable decks based around Cloudpost .
- "Urza's => Swamp" to hurt decks based around Urza's Tower
 .
You can also fix your mana by naming something like "Mountain => Swamp."
Oh ok thanks!
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 11:42AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2011
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If you played it and said "all lands of type Gate are Islands for the rest of this turn", then you tried to play a Rakdos Guildgate  later that same turn... would it come into play untapped-as-an-Island, tapped-as-an-Island, or tapped-as-a-Rakdos Guildgate?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 12:00PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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It would come in tapped as a Rakdos Guildgate , since the set of objects affected by Vision Charm won't change after the effect starts. I believe this is the relevant rule:
611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when that continuous effect began.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 12:01PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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tapped-as-a-Rakdos Guildgate
It is unaffected by the effect because the effect modifies the characteristics of game objects and is locked-in with the ones it affects at the time it resolves
edit: @Bowshewitz: My first answer was incorrect, I highlighted the wrong text to keep and then realized I grabbed the wrong option and deleted it
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