Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:40PM, Escef wrote:

Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:35PM, Wahooney wrote:

Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:31PM, Escef wrote:

KP + Teferi = play a spell, it gets exiled and imprinted, and then do nothing. At that point you are stuck with whatever you have on the board and cannot play new spells for most intents and purposes.

Ghost-Lit Raider breaks that.

In theory, so can Storm. But I've yet to hear of anyone who runs the Raider in either the main deck or the side board. Storm, OTOH, is a dedicated archetype.

I'd concede the point if this was the competitive section. The question was about an unbreakable lock. Thus I don't see how a card's playability is in any way relevant, as long as it breaks a presented lock.

Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:44PM, Wahooney wrote:

Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:40PM, Escef wrote:

Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:35PM, Wahooney wrote:

Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:31PM, Escef wrote:

KP + Teferi = play a spell, it gets exiled and imprinted, and then do nothing. At that point you are stuck with whatever you have on the board and cannot play new spells for most intents and purposes.

Ghost-Lit Raider breaks that.

In theory, so can Storm. But I've yet to hear of anyone who runs the Raider in either the main deck or the side board. Storm, OTOH, is a dedicated archetype.

I'd concede the point if this was the competitive section. The question was about an unbreakable lock. Thus I don't see how a card's playability is in any way relevant, as long as it breaks a presented lock.

It's about as hard a lock as one can get. Yes, there are ways around it, but we are looking at a lock that people will build decks around. Raider? Yeah, nobody uses him unless someone in their playgroup is using the combo.

Hell, under this lock, you can still win by Forecasting Pride of the Clouds and swinging with birds.

So, I'm not saying it's unbeatable, or a guaranteed, 100% lock out. But few things get any closer. Especially not while only being a 2 card combo.

Jan 4, 2013 -- 2:55PM, Apollo_8089 wrote:

You can always replace Teferi with Curse of Exhaustion . Immune to burn, so slightly stronger, at the cost of flashiness.  That's about the closest I can think fo that's remotely viable.

Or Arcane Laboratory , and keep it mono blue.

Jan 4, 2013 -- 3:15PM, Apollo_8089 wrote:

Wouldn't that you screw you over too?

Depends upon what you have in play. Once you have the opponent locked out, permanents that mill (e.g., Millstone , Sands of Delirium ) can work their magic... 'Course, that works both ways, too.

You cant have a hard lock thats defeated by Celestial Colonnade .  And you certainly cant claim that manlands dont see play.

Stasis and Frozen Aether is also a pretty solid lock.

But in any case you'd need a lot more than two cards to create a genuine hard lock that couldnt be broken, any of which could be countered when you played it.  What exactly are the paramenters of the mental exercise here?  Are we looking for a magic christmasland "I win" combo, or a complete lock on your opponent?