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Switch to Forum Live View Help a loser booster draft! (RtR mainly)
5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 9:11AM #1
GeekyDad
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2012
Posts: 603
Yes, I'm a loser at booster draft. Trouble is, it's the format my local FNM does, so unless I get better, it's either the Sunday tournaments (and I don't have a powerful enough constructed deck for that) or nothing.

I've drafted three times. First time, I actually came in 10th out of 18; I guess I got lucky. Second time, 22nd out of 23rd. Third time, 24th- dead last. I had a creature heavy deck, but was completely oblivious to the fact that the player on my right was in my colors, and yanked every bomb. I was grabbing lots of fliers and evasion, but my deck died when it hit mid-game, since I didn't have any creatures with a power greater than 2. How do you know what you're missing when you never see it in the first place?

Anyway, I need some help and general advice. Third draft, my problem was signaling, obviously. Second draft, the issue was selecting colors too early. I pulled a Mercurial Chemister first pack, and locked myself into Izzet immediately. My first draft was obviously beginners luck, as I opened two major bombs in the same color in my first two packs- Niv-Mizzet, and Jace. So I'm pretty sure I know what I did wrong each time, I just don't know enough to really avoid it.

So- some questions.
-How long do I wait before selecting colors? I guess just grabbing the best cards for the first three or four picks in every pack, then seeing what I've got from there?
-Where does ramp/color fixing rank on priority in general? When should I grab a keyrune or guildgate over a 2/2 flier? (Okay, the Azorius Keyrune -is- a 2/2 flier, and was the only reason I lasted to mid-game in my third draft games at all.)
-Should I actually separate my picks into BREAD piles to make sure I'm getting enough bombs? It's probably obvious to everyone else at that point what I'm doing, but right now, I'm more worried about getting a playable deck than anything else. (FNM does zone drafting, so I'm not too worried about mixing up the card piles.)
-Are there any obvious hints for signalling that I can pick up? (In general, I'm Mr Oblivious, so I need a signal to tap me on the head like a rubber mallet.) The player to my right was flabberghasted I'd picked the colors I did once all the picks were done, since he knew he'd yanked all the bombs.

Plus any general advice would be appreciated!
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 9:24AM #2
Urzasapprentice
Date Joined: Jul 13, 2008
Posts: 1,662
Go easy on yourself. It's not as easy as we make it sound. I screw up a draft every now and then. Sometimes I make a crazy good deck and go 1-3...it happens.

First of all the BREAD acrynm is useful but don't follow it TOO closely.

Play your style of cards.

I do recommend for new players to use the first half of pack one to pick all the best cards. You'll have 37 more picks to make the first 7 cards work.

Trial by error will be your best friend.

You can't read the signals until you know the relative strengths of the cards.

How would you rate Voidwielder , Centaur Healer , Drudge Beetle , call of the conclave ??

You should know these things as you will only have a few seconds to pick an answer...so you should have an idea of what you would pick over what.
bulletd Guidelines:

5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1. Domri Rade
4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Obzedat, Ghost Council
4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Rubblehulk
3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Ground Assault
3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. Kingpin's Pet
2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Mugging
2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Act of Treason
1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Gutter Skulk
1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Mental Vapors
0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Shattering Blow
0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Frenzied tilling
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 9:41AM #3
rstnme
Date Joined: Aug 10, 2012
Posts: 2,582
Drafting is hard. Take no small amount of comfort in that.

Here's a ratio to remember: 16:7. That stands for 16 creatures and 7 removal spells. That's your most basic limited deck, if you include 23 lands as well. I strongly recommend against deviating from this ratio for new players. Ultimately, the key here is any combination of on-curve* cards that add up to 40, including lands, but the 16:7 has worked pretty consistently for newbies and pros for many years.

It's always best to know a set. It just helps you figure out what you might see in the next pack, and what's missing from the packs you're getting. You can't pick up on signals if you don't know a set.

I've had successful drafts where I didn't pick the colors I was playing until the middle of pack 2. I've had successful drafts where I snagged a bomb pack 1 pick 1 and never had to deviate thereafter. Generally, I have my colors figured out by pick 6 or 7 of pack 1.

*Curve is key in any deck. Having a turn 1, turn 2, and turn 3 play will almost always put you well ahead of your opponent.

Limited Guidelines:

5.0: I will take this card no matter what: Pack Rat
4.5: Bomb and/or splashable creature or removal: Aetherling
4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors: Advent of the Wurm
3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Gaze of Granite
3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature: Ascended Lawmage
2.5: Solid pick in-color: Bronzebeak Moa
2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Haazda Snare Squad
1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Wake the Reflections )
1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land: Murmuring Phantasm
0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in: Uncovered Clues
0.0: I will shred this card for counters: Possibility Storm
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 9:49AM #4
GeekyDad
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2012
Posts: 603
Thoughts on the cards-
Voidweilder- temporary removal combined with defense, but expensive. (I know a lot of people say it's good, I just haven't seen it in play.) If I've got other cards with effects that trigger when something enters or leaves the battlefield, its value goes up significantly.
Centaur Healer- half a thragtusk for 3 mana. Looks like a solid card, but not a bomb. Life gain shouldn't be a goal in and of itself.
Drudge Beetle- fills in the gaps if you're low on creatures, but the ability is overpriced. Of course, in draft, you can actually get the mana needed to scavange it for late game. A 2/2 for 2 isn't fantastic though, considering the next card-
Call of the Conclave- 3/3 for 2 is good, can be out on turn two for major damage unless they can deal with it. Do I have populate cards to work with?...

If I had to rank these, I'd pick Call of the Conclave, Centaur Healer, Voidweilder, and Drudge Beetle, in that order.
Am I way off?
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 10:28AM #5
Urzasapprentice
Date Joined: Jul 13, 2008
Posts: 1,662

Jan 2, 2013 -- 9:49AM, GeekyDad wrote:

Thoughts on the cards-
Voidweilder- temporary removal combined with defense, but expensive. (I know a lot of people say it's good, I just haven't seen it in play.) If I've got other cards with effects that trigger when something enters or leaves the battlefield, its value goes up significantly.
Centaur Healer- half a thragtusk for 3 mana. Looks like a solid card, but not a bomb. Life gain shouldn't be a goal in and of itself.
Drudge Beetle- fills in the gaps if you're low on creatures, but the ability is overpriced. Of course, in draft, you can actually get the mana needed to scavange it for late game. A 2/2 for 2 isn't fantastic though, considering the next card-
Call of the Conclave- 3/3 for 2 is good, can be out on turn two for major damage unless they can deal with it. Do I have populate cards to work with?...

If I had to rank these, I'd pick Call of the Conclave, Centaur Healer, Voidweilder, and Drudge Beetle, in that order.
Am I way off?




Well done!

Voidweilder also kills tokens, gets rid of enchant creatures (the stab wound on your creature), the knightly valor on your opponent's creature, bounce a creature of yours that gives you a benefit: Centaur healer , azorius arrester ; an opponent's creature with scavenge counters on it, a problem creature back in your opponent's hand so you have the time to get your board situated or maybe draw that card you need, the guy blocks like a champ!

Call of the Conclave wins games in the opening hand. It's incredible how cards that are EASY to come by in draft Druid's deliverance , rootborn defense , eyes in the skies make centaurs every turn, and then you just win...

Drudge Beetle is nothing special. He can be useful to look for in draft has he can help with what rstme was talking about, the mana curve. We might be light on "two drops" this guy fills the void and gives a nice little bonus later in the game.

Centaur Healer is pretty solid. Rakdos hates this guy as can kill or trade off a lot of their early plays and the life gain is enough time for a board stabilization in selesnya.

bulletd Guidelines:

5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1. Domri Rade
4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Obzedat, Ghost Council
4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Rubblehulk
3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Ground Assault
3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. Kingpin's Pet
2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Mugging
2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Act of Treason
1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Gutter Skulk
1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Mental Vapors
0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Shattering Blow
0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Frenzied tilling
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 10:55AM #6
PanteraCanes
Date Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 2,359
As far as draft, it just really takes a lot of practice.  Mana curve is a really big thing to consider as well.  I find it to be one of the more important things to learn to keep in mind as well as keep filled out.  There are several web sites devoted to mostly draft videos and I would suggest checking them out.  (namely Channel Fireball and Draft Magic)

One problem you will face right now is the format has matured so a lot of people know what cards are good and not good.  While you are fighting the battle of figuring out the format while also learning to draft.  In about a month there will be an entirley new format and you will be on more even ground with other drafters.  I would took the time until then just to get better at basics of drafting rather than master this format.  The BREAD is a good basic and starting point.  Though not the end all be all.  Mana curve is another good one.

Signals are tough.  To anybody a color can seem really open while the person in front of them is in the color.  You also have pack distributions where sometimes a pack has a lot of good cards in one color and maybe none in another.  AVR seemed the worst at this as you could open 4 packs and none of them have a certain color so it would seem to everyone that color is cut while nobody is in it.  You need to balance between power of the cards in certain color while the numbers of cards in other colors.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 10:57AM #7
PanteraCanes
Date Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 2,359
I also agree that you can't let the results get you too down.  Everyone has those times where they get an amazing deck in draft but scrub out simply due to bad draws.  Then many people have the most horrible decks, but happen to draw the 1 or 2 good cards in their deck every time and enough mana to cast while the opponents have mana issues and win.  I know I've had many examples of both.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 1:12PM #8
krarks_pinky
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 818
I recommend going on youtube and searching "return to ravnica draft"
You will find more than two dozen draft videos where the drafter speaks aloud his pick choices. This will give you a good idea about what other fairly successful drafters are thinking as they do it, how they value their picks, etc. They're not perfect but it should give you some good insights.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 10:35PM #9
Celtia
Date Joined: Jan 1, 2013
Posts: 184
My first booster draft was the last FNM draft of the 2013 Core set at my local store before the release of Return to Ravnica made that the new drafting set.

Since then, I've been drafting anywhere between one and three times a week with only a handful of exceptions, addicted to the format (and the game itself, something I'm quite new to) and have grown from consistently ending up 7th or 8th out of 8 people in a single draft to holding my first flawless "1st place" at the end of the year, and on average ending up 3rd or 4th.

Practice is a huge element, learning from both mistakes and examples which cards are or are not as reliable or significant tools to victory, and which ones ended up as dead weights every time you played them. Your response to Urzasapprentice on the cards he gave seemed just about perfect (though I would personally consider Voidwielder a better bet than Centuar Healer because of how strong bounce and quasi-removal effects are in Return to Ravnica). 

In response to your questions, though, here's my advice from what I've learnt over time. I cannot stress enough that they are just my own opinion and I am very new to Magic the Gathering relative to most people on the forum, so take everything I say with a pinch of salt.

Selecting Colors

While some people at my store would disagree, I find it's usually simplest to make your first 2 or 3 picks under the assumption you're going to play a specific guild, usually chosen depending on the best cards on offer in the first two picks. Let's say, first pick Dreg Mangler (after seeing an unimpressive Rare like Conjured Currency ) and second pick a Thrill-Kill Assassin . In this example, you're ready to play Golgari colors (Green-Black) and should stick to that, and you have two strong creatures to start with. That said, if need be you should still be particularly open to taking some GOOD white or Red cards in case you want to shift your focus or just splash into Rakdos (Black-Red) or Selesnya (Green-White) colors.

If you get to your third pick, its not usually easy to see what colors the people near you ARE playing...but you can probably see what they're NOT playing. In this circumstance, if I saw a Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage or a Call of the Conclave , I would make the assumption nobody that the two people to my right are not playing Selesnya Colors yet. If you get to your 9th pick and you're seeing commons like Centaur's Herald , then I would take it and change to playing dedicated populate-based deck then and there, because its clear not many other people on the table are fighting for cards to enable these decks.

The later you see what you'd call 'good' cards, the more sure you can be that not many people are playing those colors. 

In general, start with 2 colors in mind, and if you find yourself struggling to get many playables by 6th pick, then try to move into an adjacent 'guild' if possible. Like giving up the Green-Black Golgari for the Black-Red Rakdos, where you might still be able to make use of some of the cards you've already got, while opening yourself up to a hopefully less-contested color of card. Try to keep at least one of the 2 colors you chose at the start.

By the start of Pack 2, you should be locked in to at LEAST 1 of your 2 colors. By the end of Pack 2, you should now know what colors you're playing for certain and what cards you need to finish your deck (say, creatures or removal or high-costs or low-costs or mana fixing if you're playing 3 or 4 colors).

Hopefully that wasn't all too confusing. To summarize: Choose two colors, and be ready to give up one of them if better cards present themselves.


Ramp and Color Fixing

Guildgates and Transguild Promenades are of very little value if you're getting enough good cards (enough 'playables') in two colors on their own. Guildgates of your guild are good to pick if there's nothing else of interest, but they're rarely much more valuable than simple basic lands. True, they prevent you from being screwed on a color as easily, but they also slow you down - and if you're only playing 2 colors mana fixing like them is rarely necessary.

In particular, if you're playing Rakdos colors you might steer away from the Guildgates because they slow you down - not something Red/Black handles well. Compare to Golgari or Selesnya, who can usually afford the slower nature of the guildgates for their reliability, because these guilds aim for the late-game.

If you're playing 3 or more colors, THEN mana fixers become necessary, or at least useful. If I'm playing Green/Black with a handful of Red cards (like Rakdos, Lord of Riots , Hellhole Flailer and Cobblebrute ), then a Rakdos Guildgate is valuable, and useful even if it takes me a while before I draw any red cards after playing it. Also, because I'm splitting my land already, Golgari Guildgate should decrease the chances of me being left without Forests or Swamps when I need them to play my cards.

The Keyrunes, though, tend to be good cards even in two-color decks, though they shine most when used for mana-fixing as well. While, again, fast-paced decks will be slowed down by them, they serve multiple purposes. They ramp, provide fixing AND can double as creatures for blocking or attacking. They're usually good picks regardless of your guild, as long as they're in your colors.
Came for the flavor, stayed for the game.

(10/4/2013: Discovered that I suppose I most closely resemble a Vorthos player, right after my odd obsession with making hyper-budget but effective decks and right before being a Johnny)
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 8:00AM #10
Stuie66
Date Joined: Jul 31, 2011
Posts: 35

Jan 2, 2013 -- 1:12PM, krarks_pinky wrote:

I recommend going on youtube and searching "return to ravnica draft" You will find more than two dozen draft videos where the drafter speaks aloud his pick choices. This will give you a good idea about what other fairly successful drafters are thinking as they do it, how they value their picks, etc. They're not perfect but it should give you some good insights.




I'll add twitch.tv to that recommendation.  There are many drafters broadcasting, some more interactive than others.  The ones willing to discuss picks can offer a lot of real-time insight and answer questions you have.

Edit:  Also, don't think of yourself as a "loser" - that's a self-defeating attitude.

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