|
5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 8:27PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2011
|
I control Lich  and Words of Worship  . During my upkeep I activate Words of Worship twice. How many cards will I draw during my draw step? My thought is this: 1) As my draw step begins, I attempt to draw a card. 2) "Draw a card" is replaced by WoW#1 with "Gain 5 life." 3) "Gain 5 life" is replaced by Lich with "Draw five cards." 4) "Draw five cards" is replaced by WoW#2 with "Gain 5 life, then draw four cards." 5) Lich's replacement effect has already applied, so it doesn't apply again. End result: Gain 5 life and draw four cards.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 8:44PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
|
That looks right to me, assuming the ad-hoc definition of "event" most of us use rather than the rulebook's definition.
WotC really needs to expand on section 701 so we have a working definition of "event."
Rules Advisor Please autocard: [c ]Disenchant[/c ] = Disenchant  .
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 8:44PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2010
|
That sounds good. The event being replaced is the initial card draw, first it's being replaced by the Words of Worship's effect, then that gets replaced by the lich. Since Words of Worship's ability was activated again that is a seperate replacement effect so it can still apply to that event, and does so by replacing one of the 5 draws of the lich with a 5 point life gain. After that all the replacement effects have been applied and you'd gain 5 life and draw 4 cards.
DCI Level 2 Judge
Rockford, Illinois
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 2:28PM
#4
|
|
|
According to Oracle Lich says if you would gain life draw that many cards instead so why is it not replacing the second instance of life gain?
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 2:33PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
|
A replacement effect can only apply once to any given event. There is only one event here (the initial "draw a card"), that gets modified by several replacement effects, the Lich's is one (1) of those effects, so it can only apply once and that happened in step 3). It therefore cannot apply to further modifications of that event.
I'm a Rules Advisor now  "Simple questions" usually need rather complex answers, while complex questions often come down to no more than a simple "yes" or "no". Some of my favorite Flavor texts:
Show
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 2:34PM
#6
|
|
|
Ah I see now, thank you.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 2:58PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
|
Question: Can Lich apply to the subsequent draws as separate events?
For example: If there was a third activation of Words, it would apply to the second draw which should be a separate event so Lich should be able to apply to it, right?
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 3:06PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
|
Question: Can Lich apply to the subsequent draws as separate events?
For example: If there was a third activation of Words, it would apply to the second draw which should be a separate event so Lich should be able to apply to it, right?
The concensus would be no, because it still stems from the initial card draw. That's why I was saying we need a better definition for "event" in the CR. "Anything that happens" is a very subjective phrase.
Rules Advisor Please autocard: [c ]Disenchant[/c ] = Disenchant .
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 3:17PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
|
The first draw would still be the same event, however, the subsequent draws should be distinct from the initial event, shouldn't they?
Initial Event: {Draw a card}
Apply first Words: {Gain 5 life}
Apply Lich: {Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}
Apply 2nd Words: {Gain 5 life}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}
do first event and gain 5 life
Apply 3rd Words: {Gain 5 life}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}
Apply Lich as it's a new event: {Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}{Draw a card}
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 5:14PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
|
No. Imagine a card like Well of Lost Dreams  but with a replacement effect. That card combined with Lich would cause the game to enter a neverending loop of replacing life gain with card draw and vice-versa, all stemming off a single "event." We had a similar discussion concerning Parallel Lives  a week or two ago. Sub-events can't be sunject to replacement effects already applied to a parent event.
Rules Advisor Please autocard: [c ]Disenchant[/c ] = Disenchant .
|
|
|
