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Jan 2, 2013 -- 3:19AM, Soular wrote:

 

Jan 1, 2013 -- 7:47PM, FezzHead wrote:

After all, we no longer skip turns as a cost.

I don't understand why not, though. Aside from making the activation cost clean of unique actions, it sounds fine. I think this deserves further inquiry.

Okay, there's a thread about Meditate (link), and one of the arguments there  (link) as to why it's not a cost is that "skip your next turn", while technically possible, is not philosophically acceptable as a cost when it's not verified that you would be taking such a turn in the first place. (Cards like Time Vault allow it as a cost because it happens as soon as you're about to take a turn).

I guess we could argue for Psychic Vortex on somewhat similar grounds. Drawing cards when you don't know if you have enough in your library is technically possible (thanks to a rule that expands its meaning to allow it), but it's philosophically arguable that you actually paid the cost since you didn't draw the amount you're supposed to draw.

However, drawing cards for a cost will still be possible ( Invigorate + Nefarious Lich ). So it has to be considered acceptable even if we'll attempt to prevent it from the outset. (Whether this should convince you that Psychic Vortex should change or convince you it should stay as it as it is I'll leave to your opinons)

Jan 2, 2013 -- 8:13AM, FezzHead wrote:

If "fixing" Psychic Vortex won't solve the issue, then I agree it shouldn't change. What I would like to see is an amendment to the rules that makes drawing off an empty library an impossible action.

That would break the rule that makes you lose when you draw from an empty library, since impossible actions are ignored.
 

It's kind of hard with all the kinds of replacement effects that can replace draws and the fact that the we don't know how draws would be replaced later on.
If for example we'd try to disallow paying when there are not enogh cards to draw, it won't prevent a replacement effect from doubling one of the draws once the player is allowed to pay. Not to mention, this will be annoying for players who actually want to use dredge or Words and don't really intend to draw.

If it puts your mind at ease, think of the "draw a card" instruction as a shortcut for "attempt to draw a card" or "request a card from the library". This is still somewhat technical, but it's simpler than "create a replacement effect that skips your next turn".