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Jan 1, 2013 -- 6:17PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

Jan 1, 2013 -- 11:32AM, Kazepenku wrote:

if you kill an opponent's dimir keyrune while it's a creature and Lazav is up, can you copy Lazav into an unblockable 2/2?

Then you get a 2/2 hexproof unblockable =O

No. The keyrune is not a creature card in the graveyard, so Lazav's ability does not trigger.

This is correct. The Keyrune will "die" as a creature, but itself is not a "creature card" going to a graveyard, and thus will not trigger Lazav. Rule 603.6 refers to to handling continuous abilities creating triggered abilities, but specifically 603.6c which states, in part, "An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone “from anywhere” is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield[,]" [my emphasis]; 603.6d also speaks on this and refers to various triggered abilities, but specifically excludes zone changes of this sort and would normally see their state BEFORE they changed zones (such as moving from a visible to hidden zone), which is not the case here (both zones are visible).

Lazav will see the objects change zones, he will be very curious about the unblockable horror that went to its opponent's graveyard, but must wait until AFTER it has "entered the graveyard" to see that a creature card went to the graveyard from somewhere, but fails to find a creature card that piques its interest and regards it not at all.

Jan 2, 2013 -- 1:25AM, Kazepenku wrote:

Jan 1, 2013 -- 7:58PM, Qilong wrote:

Jan 1, 2013 -- 6:17PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

Jan 1, 2013 -- 11:32AM, Kazepenku wrote:

if you kill an opponent's dimir keyrune while it's a creature and Lazav is up, can you copy Lazav into an unblockable 2/2?

Then you get a 2/2 hexproof unblockable =O

No. The keyrune is not a creature card in the graveyard, so Lazav's ability does not trigger.

This is correct. The Keyrune will "die" as a creature, but itself is not a "creature card" going to a graveyard, and thus will not trigger Lazav. Rule 603.6 refers to to handling continuous abilities creating triggered abilities, but specifically 603.6c which states, in part, "An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone “from anywhere” is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield[,]" [my emphasis]; 603.6d also speaks on this and refers to various triggered abilities, but specifically excludes zone changes of this sort and would normally see their state BEFORE they changed zones (such as moving from a visible to hidden zone), which is not the case here (both zones are visible).

Lazav will see the objects change zones, he will be very curious about the unblockable horror that went to its opponent's graveyard, but must wait until AFTER it has "entered the graveyard" to see that a creature card went to the graveyard from somewhere, but fails to find a creature card that piques its interest and regards it not at all.

thanks.

What if he copies a simic card. Will he also have evolve? 

He, like all other Clones, will have the effective full text of any creature he copies, save he will ALSO have Hexproof (ugh) and the copy ability, will be Legendary, and have his own name.

Dec 31, 2012 -- 9:20PM, BiNexus wrote:

If you were to encode a Cipher spell onto the keyrune as a creature, it would fall off when it reverted back, right?

Cipher spells aren't auras. They're more like imprint or haunt. So no.

Jan 3, 2013 -- 6:04PM, speedy92286 wrote:

Jan 1, 2013 -- 7:13AM, jedi123 wrote:

I believe this holds on to encoded spells, and that makes me happy.

Same here. A keyrune that actually interacts with the guild's mechanic? Yes please!

Well....one could argue that Azorius could detain any flyers of an opponent, leaving the ground-based creatures safe as they attack with their keyrune.

And....well...any unblockable creature ever printed interacts with Cipher, so I wouldn't say that this keyrune is particularly special. The Gruul one 'interacts' with its guild mechanic too, sort of, with its Trample.