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I wouldn't bring this in just for the combo with underworld connections.  It does like nothing when you don't hit the combo, and even when you do, I just feel like you would have won most of those games with just connections.  I'd honestly rather run another land.

Dec 30, 2012 -- 10:01AM, Catotheyounger wrote:

I wouldn't bring this in just for the combo with underworld connections.  It does like nothing when you don't hit the combo, and even when you do, I just feel like you would have won most of those games with just connections.  I'd honestly rather run another land.

Actually I didn't hit the combo and then tapped out for a creature on my turn and then on my opponents turn played a key giant growth .


Later in the same game I did something similar where I used all but one mana and then cast savage surge . The Oak street inn keeper wasn't going to come in that handy, that card was excellent. Then as said before it provided me a third card one turn that DIRECTLY kept me alive. If I only had the connections I would have lost, then 4 turns later it saved me AGAIN, with a third draw!

BUT, the big but, this was a narrow situation. I had the connections, I was in Golgari and I was happy with my build.

It's not out of the question for me to give this a 0.5 especially because after it saved my butt DIRECTLY in three games of one tourney.

Dec 30, 2012 -- 10:24AM, Shadowchu wrote:

Dec 30, 2012 -- 10:13AM, Urzasapprentice wrote:

Dec 30, 2012 -- 9:53AM, Shadowchu wrote:

lol, you got it. You're actually just 100% wrong. Please prove that you're not being results oriented and then I'll concede. Until then you're wrong. This card is a 0. It is actually completely unplayable regardless of what you think. 

You can think what you like. I proved you wrong. There are situations where this card is useful. You don't get to deciede for all of us what the card ratings are. I've seen some dubious ratings from you in the past. I could care less if you think this is 0.0. I will run it in similar situations again and feel comfortable.

No, you're still wrong. I would gladly play against you playing this piece of feces because it means your deck has been dilluted with garbage.

You have a singular use for a bad card. You're being results oriented. You still haven't proven how the card is good even as your rating of a sideboard option. You shouldn't play bad cards even if a bad card worked for you once. It's bad practice and the wrong way to look at deck construction. Do you board in/side out lands after you get mana flooded/screwed? It's the same idea. You play the right amount of lands because over the course of playing magic you'll have the right amounts and then variance will time to time screw you. It's the same with only playing good magic cards. If you play crappy ones over a long period of time they will be bad for you. Your small amount of anecdotal evidence to this card being useful is wrong. 

You can't possibly be this dense. No one could be. A 0.0 means you would never play it under ANY circumstances. I HAVE played it, to strong effect. Therefore saying I wouldn't play it under any circumstance would be false. My evidence does PROVE that it's a 0.5 I only need to provide one situation where it was picked and played successfully. I did that. But you refuse to ever acknowledge other people's plays or ideas because you're so narrow in your thinking. For the last time, it wasn't only used for Underworld connections , UC was one of several reasons that I CONSIDERED playing this card. The others being I had plenty of creatures, plenty of lands and no spells to add in color. It had a chance to make an impact because I had many instances in this deck that might be useful.

As I already stated it was cast during three games. In each of those games it was KEY in delivering a win. Providing necassary mana for two combat tricks and providing a third card for winning effect several times.

It's extremely rare that I would play this, but for one, I'm happy that I was able to see through the stigma WE all attached to this card and I helped it to be viable and win FNM. I'm happy to say I went 4-0 with a deck consisting of a few common combat tricks and an Underworld Connections I only drew in 4/10 games.

Again, it really doesn't matter what you think. I used the card and it worked...end of story. Will I use it ever again? Who knows, maybe not.
But I wouldn't have won if I had been drawing the Inn Keeper I know that.

It's too bad you can't see when a card's value rises because of what's around it in the deck.

You probably only win when you have bomb rares. I'm 1/1 with this card and happy for it.

Preface: I can't really do math worth a damn, so please feel free to correct me here.

So, we all agree that this card does absolutely nothing when you don't have underworld connections in play. The question is, assuming we have 1 underworld connections and 1 urban feces (I lol'ed irl) in our deck, what are the odds we draw both? and when?

The earliest we can assemble the combo is turn three(activating for the first time on turn 4). Giving ourselves the benefit of the doubt, let's assume we are on the draw. If so, we have seen 10 cards(7 opener plus 3 draw steps) of 40, or .25 of our deck.

.25 is our chance of drawing each respective combo piece by turn 3.

.25*.25 = .063, the odds we have assembled the combo on turn 3 on the draw.
.275*.275 = .076, the odds on turn 4
.3*.3 = .090, the odds on turn 5
.325*.325 = .106, the odds on turn 6
.35*.35 = .123, the odds on turn 7
.375*.375 = .141, the odds on turn 8

Additional disclaimer: Yes I know that you can't draw both cards in the same draw step. I don't know how that affects the numbers so I have chosen to ignore it.

Now we have reached the average length of an RTR game. Beyond this, I don't see how drawing our combo would be relevant.

If we saturate our deck with urban feces, to the point where we always have 1 in hand, our odds of assembling the combo are still only .25 on turn 3 and .375 on turn 8.

Is a 6%-14% chance of assembling the combo worth the large majority of the times when urban burgeoning is a virtual mulligan? I'm not even considering the life and mana payments it takes to use underworld, and how much easier it makes the opponent's task of killing us.