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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 1:56AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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My question is if my opponent casts Thatcher Revolt and attacks with them do they die on his next turns end step; which would allow for him to attack with them two turns or this turns end step?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 1:58AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2009
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The tokens are sacrificed at the beginning of the next end step to occur. Given that Thatcher Revolt  is a sorcery that means it'll usually be during the turn on which they're created, but there are ways of casting the spell such that they're sacrificed on your opponents turn (ie. ending the turn prior to the end step with something like Sundial of the Infinite  , or casting the spell during your opponents turn thanks to something like Leyline of Anticipation  ).
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 2:21AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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I had Thatcher Revolt used on me today and my opponent attacked the turn they came into play and on his next turn attacked again with them then they died. So you are saying he they werent suppose to be around to attack me tw of his turns?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 2:28AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2009
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Again, they're sacrificed at the beginning of the next end step to occur. If your opponent cast them before his combat phase, attacked with them, and actually hit an end step (as you normally would in a turn), he'd have to sacrifice them at that point. So unless there were some other shenanigans involved - like the aforementioned Sundial of the Infinite (which, incidentally, could allow the tokens to stay permanently if you ended the turn with the sac trigger on the stack), then your opponent should have sacrificed them on the turn they cast the spell.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 3:37AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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Failure to think mechanically. People thinking "sacrifice ... at the beginning of the next end step" means the end step of either their opponent's upcoming turn or their own next turn is the problem. They think that if they were meant to sac them on the same turn it was cast that it would say "at the beginning of this end step", which does not appear on any Magic card. I had a friend that thought the text on the 4th Edition Ball Lightning  where it said, "At the end of any turn, bury Ball Lightning," meant that at the end of any turn where he felt it was convenient he could sac the creature , or not.
Scope my YouTube channel!The U.S. Army: The best job in the world, working with some of the best people in the world, for one of the worst employers you could ever imagine. Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS! | Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994. | Billy Goat Gruff in the House of Trolls. |
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 7:26PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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I guess they need to reword the text then so there is no confusion. Unless they think people understand that "next" means the very next end step that comes up. They could add the word "that comes up" to the end of that so there is no confusion at all maybe?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 7:31PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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I guess they need to reword the text then so there is no confusion. Unless they think people understand that "next" means the very next end step that comes up. They could add the word "that comes up" to the end of that so there is no confusion at all maybe?
No, the confusion arises because people try to play word games.
Scope my YouTube channel!The U.S. Army: The best job in the world, working with some of the best people in the world, for one of the worst employers you could ever imagine. Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS! | Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994. | Billy Goat Gruff in the House of Trolls. |
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 8:24PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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When the end step is pretty obviously the one from the same turn they will say "at the beginning of the end step" eg. Ball Lightning However, when it's not as obvious, they use "at the beginning of the next end step" eg. Rakdos Guildmage  They are functionally equivalent. The reason they use different wordings is because typically you'll play Ball Lightning and its usually going to enter the field before the end step whereas with Guildmage you could reasonably use it before or after the beginning of the end step.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 8:28PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 8:59PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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yes, but that's because one is an ability on the permanent while the other is a delayed trigger created by the resolving activated ability.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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