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Switch to Forum Live View Ripping your opponent's cards
5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:04PM #1
Esterdi
Date Joined: Nov 7, 2012
Posts: 1,346
My friend had this question. Aside from disqualification, are there any penalties tied to ripping someone else's cards?

Assume the following:

You do not own the cards being ripped
There is a clear owner to the cards
You have not stolen the cards (for instance, you ask an opponent to let you look at a card)
There is absolutely no physical violence involved
The other person clearly did not intend for his cards to get ripped
The act is clearly intentional 
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:05PM #2
thatmarkguy
Date Joined: Sep 16, 2011
Posts: 1,173
Approximately the same penalties that apply to grabbing his iPhone, throwing it on the floor, and stomping on it.

Aside from disqualification, you've also committed vandalism on someone else's property.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:06PM #3
Bowshewicz
Date Joined: Apr 12, 2012
Posts: 1,665
There's no rules in Magic to handle this, because it's destruction of someone else's property. The fact that it's a magic card doesn't really matter for anything. You'll probably earn a DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:06PM #4
cyphern
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2003
Posts: 17,674

Aside from disqualification, are there any penalties tied to ripping someone else's cards?


Possible DCI suspension (which is true of every disqualification).

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:07PM #5
Esterdi
Date Joined: Nov 7, 2012
Posts: 1,346

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:06PM, Bowshewicz wrote:

The fact that it's a magic card doesn't really matter for anything.




His argument was that it does, because pieces of cardboard hold no real value and suing the perpetrator for vandalism would be contempt of court. (just like suing someone for eating one chip from your bowl would be interpreted as you mocking the judicial process with an insignificant claim)

Is this true?

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:08PM #6
cyphern
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2003
Posts: 17,674

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:07PM, Esterdi wrote:

His argument was that it does, because pieces of cardboard hold no real value and suing the perpetrator for vandalism would be contempt of court.

Is this true? 


/shrug. I'm afraid i'm not a lawyer.

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:12PM #7
Kingreaper
Date Joined: Jun 3, 2010
Posts: 1,612

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:07PM, Esterdi wrote:

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:06PM, Bowshewicz wrote:

There's no rules in Magic to handle this, because it's destruction of someone else's property. The fact that it's a magic card doesn't really matter for anything.




His argument was that it does, because pieces of cardboard hold no real value and suing the perpetrator for vandalism would be contempt of court.

Is this true? 



If I set fire to a Picasso, the argument "It's just some canvas with pigment on it" isn't going to hold up.

If I tear someone's black lotus, the same applies.

Things can have monetary value regardless of what they're made of. And vandalism remains vandalism even if the vandalised thing lacks monetary value.

EDIT: You can sue for damages, and they can be prosecuted for vandalism. However, unless it's a money rare, it's unlikely that anyone would bother. 

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:13PM #8
Bowshewicz
Date Joined: Apr 12, 2012
Posts: 1,665
Magic Cards are collectors items, which have real value. I like to repeat the mantra that "it's just cardboard" myself, but they really are worth something.

What laws actually cover this are beyond me, but I also know that the court isn't going to throw up its proverbial hands and say you're on your own. You definitely have a right for your personal property to be protected, or something like that.

By the way, what country are we in? :P
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 1:13PM #9
AzureShade
Date Joined: Jan 30, 2012
Posts: 3,797

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:07PM, Esterdi wrote:

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:06PM, Bowshewicz wrote:

The fact that it's a magic card doesn't really matter for anything.




His argument was that it does, because pieces of cardboard hold no real value and suing the perpetrator for vandalism would be contempt of court. (just like suing someone for eating one chip from your bowl would be interpreted as you mocking the judicial process with an insignificant claim)

Is this true?


Actually, unlike chips, collectable cards do hold real-world value that can be proven in a court of law.  If I got mad at a guy and ripped up his Babe Ruth rookie baseball card, you'd be darn sure I'd end up seeing him in court.  Same goes with Magic cards.  Depending on the value of the damage done, a case could be made of the vandalism.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 7:05PM, magicpablo666 wrote:

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 6:54PM #10
jeff-heikkinen
  • ****(ytic)
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2001
Posts: 8,354

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:07PM, Esterdi wrote:

Dec 27, 2012 -- 1:06PM, Bowshewicz wrote:

The fact that it's a magic card doesn't really matter for anything.




His argument was that it does, because pieces of cardboard hold no real value and suing the perpetrator for vandalism would be contempt of court. (just like suing someone for eating one chip from your bowl would be interpreted as you mocking the judicial process with an insignificant claim)

Is this true?



It's absolutely preposterous, and he's not only wrong but also a dick for even suggesting it.

Jeff Heikkinen
DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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