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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 12:38PM
#1
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Is the number of cards in a player's library at any given point during a game personal or public information?
I'm wondering cause once I asked an opponent how many cards he had in his library after milling him a bunch, and he refused to say.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 12:41PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2011
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401.3. Any player may count the number of cards remaining in any player’s library at any time.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 12:42PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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Is the number of cards in a player's library at any given point during a game personal or public information?
It is derived information.
I'm wondering cause once I asked an opponent how many cards he had in his library after milling him a bunch, and he refused to say.
Your opponent can't lie, but he is welcome to refuse to say. He must permit you to count his library if you want to do so.
From the Magic Tournament Rules
Derived information is information to which all players are entitled access, but opponents are not obliged to assist in determining and may require some skill or calculation to determine. Derived information includes:
• The number of any type of objects present in any game zone
P.S, at Regular Rules Enforcement Level (eg, Friday night magic), all derived information is free information, and your opponent wouldn't be able to refuse to say.
• At Regular REL, all derived information is instead considered free.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 12:43PM
#4
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Damn, that's what I get for not reading it in full XD. And yes, it was a FNM.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 1:19PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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@cyphern: Are you sure that the number of cards in a library is derived (Especially in light of 401.3)?
I was under the impression that the rule you quoted refers to things that aren't represented by physical cards, such as the number of Precursor Golems you'd have after casting a kicked Rite of Replication.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 1:25PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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@cyphern: Are you sure that the number of cards in a library is derived
Yes (at competitive or professional REL).
(Especially in light of 401.3)?
I don't see any contradiction. In fact, they seem to complement eachother. The magic tournament rules say i don't need to count my library for you, and the comprehensive rules say you're allowed to count it yourself.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 2:02PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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Oh, I see what you mean. So I'm not obligated to tell my opponent "I have 37 cards in my library," but he's free to pick it up and count the cards himself.
The only issue I have here is: What if I'm fussy about others players touching my cards? I know that a judge can be called in to shuffle if I'm worried the guy's gonna damage my deck, but I also know that judges are not obligated to help with derived info.
What are my options in this case?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 2:06PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2006
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Oh, I see what you mean. So I'm not obligated to tell my opponent "I have 37 cards in my library," but he's free to pick it up and count the cards himself.
The only issue I have here is: What if I'm fussy about others players touching my cards? I know that a judge can be called in to shuffle if I'm worried the guy's gonna damage my deck, but I also know that judges are not obligated to help with derived info.
What are my options in this case?
tell him the answer?
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 2:07PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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The only issue I have here is: What if I'm fussy about others players touching my cards? I know that a judge can be called in to shuffle if I'm worried the guy's gonna damage my deck, but I also know that judges are not obligated to help with derived info.
What are my options in this case?
You could always count it yourself and truthfully tell your opponent the result.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 2:10PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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What if I'm fussy about others players touching my cards?
Aren't we all?
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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