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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:01AM
#1
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Hi,
My question is this: are you allowed to reveal cards in your hand? I am under the impression that you cannot.
What is the penalty for revealing a card, and does it depend on the circumstances?
In a recent draft (not for money), I had 4 lands and a chandra's fury and my opponent was at 2, and I was dead on the crackback. If I tap 4 and then say something along the lines of "I have fury in hand, which deals 4 to a player, good game (asked in a questioning voice)" and reveal chandra's fury .
If my opponent replies "good game" in a dejected voice and scoops up his cards, or flips a table, or you offer him a match slip and have him sign it, is this considered a successful jedi mind trick or cheating-fraud?
Since it wasnt a sanctioned draft I did it more to see if he would see if he would fall for it not for any material gain, but was wondering if this type of play is considered acceptable in an actual tournament.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:05AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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My question is this: are you allowed to reveal cards in your hand?
Yes, during a match you are welcome to voluntarily reveal information which is private to you.
One comment about drafts though: during the draft portion (ie, when you're picking cards) you are not allowed to reveal your picks (with the exception of double-faced  cards  )
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:09AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2011
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While nothing you describe seems illegal in a technical sense, I would consider it somewhat underhanded since it relies on your opponent failing to notice a key piece of information (the fact that Chandra's Fury  costs five mana), and you certainly shouldn't expect such tactics to work on more experienced players.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:10AM
#4
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do you (or anyone else) know if there is a specific section of the comp rules that discusses voluntarily revealing private info (cards in hand/morphs/etc)?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:16AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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From the Magic Tournament Rules: 3.12 Hidden Information
Hidden information refers to the faces of cards and other objects at which the rules of the game and format do not allow you to look.
Throughout the match, a draft, and pregame procedures, players are responsible for keeping their cards above the level of the playing surface and for making reasonable efforts to prevent hidden information from being revealed. However, players may choose to reveal their hands or any other hidden information available only to them, unless specifically prohibited by the rules. Players must not actively attempt to gain information hidden from them.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:37AM
#6
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While nothing you describe seems illegal in a technical sense, I would consider it somewhat underhanded since it relies on your opponent failing to notice a key piece of information (the fact that Chandra's Fury costs five mana), and you certainly shouldn't expect such tactics to work on more experienced players.
I suppose the opportunity to use exact situation against experiences players successfully is slim, but there are certainly circumstances were a similar trick would fool even a more experienced opponent (for example, in constructed with a bunch of dual lands out, people might not check to see if you have the correct colors to cast your spells)
Whether such play is 'underhanded' probably depends a lot on the type of tournament and who you are playing. Personally I would feel comfortable doing this against someone who should "know better" (i.e. someone who is unlikely to fall for the trick anyways plays in grand prix or ptq) or the top 8 of an FNM, but not outside the top 8 of an FNM against an experienced player/someone I dont know.
Also, you might "accidentally" drop a card such as the fury pre-blockers and have another card in hand, so they might not know you dont have a 5th land, and a player who doesnt know you, even an experienced one, might fall for such a bluff if done skillfully enough, especially if you put on an act throughout playing as an excitable somewhat careless person (if I dont think it has any strategic cost, I tend to make what appear to be strategic mistakes to make my opponent underestimate me in future games in the match, i.e. I am dead on board regardless of what I draw, make a fairly bad attack, especially if I am a game up and have several cards in hand and a bunch of mana on the table and believe my opponents deck is much stronger than mine, because they may tank a long time trying to figure out what I have, making my odds of drawing increased)
Although, the discussion between a good bluff and underhanded play is pretty deep and probably deserves its own thread.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:40AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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Whether such play is 'underhanded' probably depends a lot on the type of tournament and who you are playing.
No, it does not. Underhanded is underhanded, regardless of upon whom or where you attempt it.
Holy crap, next Mike Long, this one.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:46AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2011
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If you simply claimed that you had a Chandra's Fury in hand without revealing anything, that would be a bluff. What you describe is claiming (implying) that you can cast a five-mana spell with only four mana and hoping that your opponent doesn't notice this obvious mistake.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:47AM
#9
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I want to be clear in that, if you make any attempt to obscure you lands in any of these situations or move you lands such that they are harder to see, it is not only underhanded but you should be DQ'ed from the tournament.
I would ask, what about a sitation where you make it seem like you can tap gavony township to make your opponent make different blocks, i.e. before he is done blocking begin to reach for your township. Would this be considered "underhanded"
Or the pen trick (making a change in your lifetotal when an opponent you think has giant growth that you want to spear in response attacks, and seeing you so quickly take it he goes 'wait, i wasnt finished' and casts growth just to get blown out.
Or Estratti's bluff vs Martell where he taps mana to pretend he has a second pump. He actually taps the mana and motions as if to play another card, and most pros consider that the best play of the year.
Maybe there is some key difference, but I fail to see how bluffing in a very competitive tournament is underhanded.
Edit: I agree that actually pretending to cast the spell is fraud and cheating. In the instance I mention say I never place the card on the table, it just reveal I have it in hand. Tapping the lands is obviously to give the (false) impression you are casting it, but you can of course tap lands for any reason. When I actually cast spells, I place them on the table (the stack). Say I have been placing spells I cast on the table throughout the match and reveal from my hand in this case.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:52AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2011
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Underhanded tactics, if not outright cheating, can in fact be good strategy. If you tried to pull that on me, I'd be annoyed, especially if I fell for it, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.
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